Panzer graveyard in Egypt

[NARVIK1940]

I recall watching a documentary on the desert campaign in the early 1970's. and seeing color footage of wrecked panzers still in place where they were knocked out some 30 years after the battle. This captured my imagination, and I have recently tried to find any pictures or details regarding the so-called "Panzer Graveyard" that supposedly exists or existed for some time after the war.

It is said to be about 10 Km south of Sid Abd el Rahman. Here Gen Ritter von Thoma stood by his destroyed tank and faced the British 8th Army.


I presume these are the tanks I saw on that program som 35 years ago, and wonder if they are still there? I recall reading stories by travelers in Egypt in the 1970's or 1980's stating that many vehicle wrecks could be seen along the main road through the El Alamein battlefield. I know some vehicles are on display in the monuments at El Alamein, but I just wonder if there aren't wrecks still strewn throughout the battlefield where they were originally knocked out in 1942?


There is some kind of installation at 30 50 00 N, 28 49 00 E on Google Earth, that some think might be this site. Are there any knowledgeable Alamein buffs that can provide more info here? I understand that many parts of the Alamein battlefield are still inaccessible due to minefields. Is that correct?

I might add that I have found what looks like a turretless Pzkpfw III or IV at these exact coordinates on Google: 30°50'13.37"N 28°48'35.12"E

[pete]

.

I can give you a reliable and technical answer to that question. But any movement to that area is not advised and at your own risk and also may be in violation of local laws.

Best,

Pete

[rkoy]

pete is that a YES or NO?

[Will Brown]

Excerted form this April 2006 site:

http://www.egypttoday.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=6576



"If that’s not enough to evoke an image, head to the battlefield itself. Local guides with 4WD vehicles can take you to Kidney Hill, Tel El-Issa and other battle sites. There are plenty of sand-covered bunkers, rusty ammo and barbed wire. Just be careful not to stray too far — hundreds of thousands of land mines still pepper the desert, as do pieces of unexploded ordinance."
</PARAGRAPH>


"For the thickest concentration of old war debris, head west to the Graveyard of Panzers at Tel El-Aqaqir, 10 kilometers south of Sidi Abdel Rahman. The last stand of Rommel’s Afrika Korps, it is littered with the burned-out hulks of German tanks (or “panzer” in German). In Marsa Matruh, you can visit the cave where Rommel plotted his failed offensive. Now a museum (LE 1 admission) in his honor, its exhibits include the Desert Fox’s desk, maps and greatcoat."

Does that help?

regards, Will.</PARAGRAPH>

[NARVIK1940]

Thanks

WIll, Yes, thanks. It would be nice, however, to see pictures of these hulks today. Given the renewed interest for WW2 history, I should suspect that new documentaries, books or internet sites might give attention to this interesting site. Anyone know any more about where to find more info or pics of the site as it appears today?

[Will Brown]

Surprisingly no. I just Googled German Panzer Graveyard Egypt. That was the really only pertinent link I found. I will try Google "Images" but I'm not really that hopeful.

[Jean-Loup]

I have been to Alamein multiple times, and I am certain that this panzer grave yard no longer exists (if it ever existed at all). In fact, I think all the panzers at the Alamein museum have also disapeared somehow! Probably corrupt local politicians let the tanks go overseas I suspect. To my knowleadge, there are no more abandonned vehicles to be found in Egypt today, and if there are any, they are very very far off the beaten tracks, and they are less interesting brit or italian vehicles.

There is very little war debries to be found in Egypt today, and the locals are well aware that this stuff is collected (expect to pay more then at Bill Sheas site if you find anything). Anything about "sand being covered with rusted debries of the war" etc, is basicaly BS. The only places where you can find the sand littered with rusted debries is where the Egyptian army stock piles all the old mines and shells it finds.

That article in "Egypt today" is a very romantasised version of reality, probably written by a person who based his account on some old tourist guide from the 70's.

Sorry or the sad news.

JL

[Theodor]

I bet there are still many WW2 tresures in the sands! The sand moves and covers things overnight in a sandstorm, probably complete vehicles /may be even with crews / are still there in the dunes

[Will Brown]

That article in "Egypt today" is a very romantasised version of reality, probably written by a person who based his account on some old tourist guide from the 70's.

Sorry or the sad news.

JL

but hardly unexpected. Thanks for the putting things right Jean-Loup.

[pete]

.

I have been sent some sort of ordnance map from 1965 in pdf, stand by, the wife is busy on the net right now. What i show here is OWN RISK. I am not responsible for unqualified personel getting themselves into trouble. The mines in these parts are in good condition and in 100% working condition.

Best,

Pete


Hi Pete,
Chances are there is nothing of any use, that is in Egypt anyway and I am in
the next 3rd world ****hole. Found very few bits of ammo here. I have
attached a mpa which is old, there was a big clear up in the desert in the
70's apparently, and Arabs being such thieves----
I did find a couple of piles of discarded alf track rubber pads in a few
places last year when here, along with most of a trailered German field
kitchen.
The map can be geo-referenced and works out pretty good.
All the best,
George

[Mat Holloway]

Egypt today website has crashed to much traffic

[pete]

.

Guy's you'll have to be patient a little while longer. The danger area map he has sent me is not opening correctly.

This is what it is like out there FYI. Some of the mines are in excellent shape some not and even more dangerous depending on the terrain. As you can see how the mines are covered you can also imagine and deduce that there is a high probability of other buried items not limited to ordnance in some areas where sand shifts.

Again this is for information only and entry to these areas should only be by experts.

http://www.mech.uwa.edu.au/jpt/demin...pt/rpt99e.html


Best,

Pete

[rkoy]

hmm walk softlyand carry lots of little rocks to throw at em lol jk

[NARVIK1940]

Thanks

Thanks, Pete, for the interesting document. Nice to get an up-to-date perspective on the battlefield.

As I mentioned, I found somewhere on the internet a travellogue from the 1970's or -80's that mentioned seeing a bunch of relic vehicles lined up along the main road, apparently taken off the battlefield. This can jibe with the information we have now that a major clean-up occurred at that time. If vehicles have disappeared from the monuments, that is indeed a shame. I wonder where they are, then, in private hands or public museums?

If you look at the battlefield on Google Earth, you will see remnant positions and shell craters, but little else,with the exception of some interesting artifacts at the points referenced earlier. What that is, I do not know, but at least one object looks like a WW2 tank chassis.

Here is an interesting link to an IWM study tour from 2002 to El Alamein. Very informative, but no mention here of relics that I can find. Although the armor at the museum seemed to be still in place:

http://www.iwm.org.uk/upload/package...gypt/index.htm

[pete]

.

Hi Guys.

Sorry this 1965 map is just not opening! Second time around and it is still not doing it.

Best,

Pete