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    What do you guys think about the quality of this oral account?

    Hi guys
    I am a bit discouraged because I sent this text to the man who told me the story and was quite shoked by his response. He asked me if I was dislexic, said the text was completely confused and mixed up and didnt make any sense, and that he didnt want to participate in my project any more. He even went as far as saying that he had never said these things; when each word is specificaly and exactely what he said to me! I suspect the experience was so shocking for him that this might explain his strange reaction?
    As far as I am concerned it is one of the most impressive accounts I have managed to tape. Can you guys give me your honnest opinions? The guys reaction made me question the whole idea of making an oral history book.


    Raymondi was 14 years old in August 1944 and was with a group of partisans who attempted to prevent retreating Germans from using a mountain road near Nice, as liberating allied forces were approaching. <o></o>
    <o></o>
    I was captured under Contes, in a neighborehood called <st1>"La Pointe.". We</st1> were all captured there, because it was a bad position, there was a hill behind us. There were 7 or 8 of us. There was an italian army deserter, he was small and always spoke Italian ; he he couldnt speak french. The others had weapons, I didnt at my age.<o></o>
    Theoreticaly, it was the front there. The Germans were escaping, and the partisans were trying to slow them down or fight them. They had been ordered to stop the Germans who were using that road to go to Germany. They were starting to make convoys to leave. They would go by Contes, L’Escarene, and then into the Alps.<o></o>
    We were to block the Germans at <st1>"La Pointe". When</st1> they arrived, heavy gunfire started. There was shooting all over the place, so I got into a hole, and didnt move. They were firing with a sort of… probably some kind of machine gun or something like that. It blocked us on the ground. I didnt see what happened, I hid in a hole that was quite deep, to be protected. I didnt have any weapons or anything ; and at my age, I couldnt do anything anyways. Then somebody came and tapped me on the shoulder, they lifted me up, and we were all put together.<o></o>
    When there has been a fire fight, it is always quite tense. The soldiers were shouting « Raus ». There was shouting all over the place. The atmosphere is so intense in those situations that any little thing can make a catastrophe happen. A mouvement, a word, something like that… It is very difficult to control.<o></o>
    There was a guy, Gavin, who was killed immediatly, and Martin too… The Germans had taken all the weapons, and at one point he lifted up his arms, and they saw that he had a grenade on his belt, so they killed him. And Gavin, he had a very nervous caracter, he was insulting them, he was saying all kinds of things, and it irittated them. So they killed him immediately. They took him, they killed him and they threw him into the ditch.<o></o>
    I wasnt in my normal state. I didnt know what was going to happen to me, so I was very emotional. I was in a fighting team, and I hadnt defined my position clearly, so they were pushing us around. It bothered them to have to go back to Nice ; it bothered them enormously. I even thought that they wanted to kill all of us on the side of the road, and continue on their way. Going back bugged them, but since there were 7, 8 or 10 of us there, it was a big problem.<o></o>
    So we went down to Pasteur by foot, then we went up the road that goes in front of Pasteur hospital, and then we got to Cimiez. There we were locked into a villa called « Les Collines ». We were put into a basement, and chained up. There were hooks on the walls, and they locked us all up with chains. And we stayed there. We didnt speak or anything, we were completely shocked. The marks from the chains stayed on my wrists for three or four months, because we couldnt sit down. We would fold our knees and we would be hanging by our wrists.<o></o>
    The next morning, the guys were interogated. We hadnt eaten or drunk. They came and they interogated the guys one after an other. Thats when people started disapearing. I would see them leave. A soldier would unlock the chains, and take them up to be interogated, and then they would disapear.<o></o>
    I was one of the first two or three. They unlocked my chains to interogate me. The soldier was following me with a rifle and told me to go up. I went up, and got to the ground flore. An officer went by, and called the soldier, and told him to come with him. The soldier told me to wait. So I was in the yard. It was the day of the liberation of Nice, so it was full of soldiers, vehicles and things like that. And there was a toilet that had been made by the soldiers there, just a hole in the ground. And since I was, lets say… since I hadnt done anything for two or three days, I went into that toilet and did my business. And in the toilet, there were pieces of wood to stand on, you were perched up on those pieces of wood. There were branches that were isolating me from the villa, so I climbed on those pieces of wood, and looked what was on the other side of the wall, and I saw the next villa was empty. So what did I do ? I jumped over the wall and I escaped. <o></o>
    Since I hadnt eaten or drunk anything, when I got home I was completely exhausted. My mother crushed some potatoes for me, with a bit of olive oil, and I ate that, and then vomited. I couldnt eat, my stomach was all tight ; and I went to bed. I was exhausted.<o></o>
    I was used as a witness because I am the last one to have seen lots of people alive. Since he wasnt from the region, I bet that italian soldier who was with us was never heard of again, nobody in the world will know who he was or where he was from… I have a vision of his face in my head. He was a small guy, very nice, a bit shy. When he deserted, he must have been from southern Italy, so instead of going all through Italy, he perfered to go underground with us. Well, I saw that guy for the last time. The guy disapeared completely, and I am sure he had familly who never knew what became of him. That is one of the most miserable things about war.<o></o><o></o><o></o><o></o>
    36
    It is a breathtaking ,impressive and good quality accound of a dramatic event.
    30.56%
    11
    A very interesting text, but a bit confusing a moments.
    36.11%
    13
    A resonably interesting account that is difficult to understand.
    16.67%
    6
    Mediocre, boring to read.
    13.89%
    5
    The text is uncomprehensible, and totaly unusable for any professional purpose.
    2.78%
    1
    Last edited by Jean-Loup; 10-04-2007, 02:02 PM.

    #2
    Hi Jean-Loup,
    Do I understand correctly that you taped the story as the guy told it and recounted it word for word from his account?
    If so I can't find anything wrong with it. If you're telling it as it was told to you there can't be anything wrong with it. If you rewrote it to make it flow or to suit yourself it wouldn't be a true account.
    I guess you could break up the text a little with a sentance or two about the man, his mood while telling it or give some geography and history about the story but otherwise I think its fine.

    Comment


      #3
      This text isnt in its pure form like when the guy told me the story (otherwise I would have to post the thing as a much longer and much more difficult to understand interview). The guy told me the story in a completely mixed up order. I then took various paragraphs and sentences of what he told me, and put them back into chronological order for it to be as easy to understand as possible. However I did not add any words myself, rewrite anything, change vocabulary, etc though I took away many repetitions, hesitations, out of context details, etc... Basicaly, I edited the text to make it more readable while trying to do as few changes as possible.

      This is the method I always use for my oral accounts, and so far the people have always said that it corresponded to what they said, and it was very accurate.

      JL

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks for clarifying Jean-Loup, I still think its fine, I followed it without any problems, understood what was going on and it followed a logical sequence of events.

        Comment


          #5
          It makes sense to me. I actually know the places referred to as we stayed at a gites in Contes for three weeks a few years ago.
          Collecting German award documents, other paperwork and photos relating to Norway and Finland.

          Comment


            #6
            You obviously triggered an angry or sore spot with this man. Did you ask him what you can do different to make the story more accurate? His response seems unusual....maybe he has some dementia, alzheimer's or other psychiatric issue? Would he write down his experiences as he recalled them? I find nothing wrong with the narrative...it's quite moving. I'm puzzled by such a negative reaction...is there more to the story?

            -eric

            Comment


              #7
              Great Story

              Jean-Loup,

              I think that the man whom you tape recorded, probably hadn't though too very much about the Fear & Horrors of that event - until you asked him.

              That stirred old memories and old fears in his mind.

              Then when he read your account of what he had said ..... he began to feel a sort of Denial.

              Maybe it brought back painful memories?

              Maybe he wished he could have done something to prevent the death of others?

              But, the recording is what he said happened........ So it is valid. Dave/dblmed

              Comment


                #8
                The man is in perfect mental health as far as I can see, but I think you guys are right that he has some kind of denial. He first refused to talk about it, then accepted, and now says that this isnt what he said and doesnt make any sence, and he doesnt want to say anything any more... He said he doesnt care about what happened 60 years ago. He seemed very upset for somebody who doesnt care.
                He also wrote the story for me at one point, but with no details and no emotional comments, in other words a boring technical text...

                JL

                Comment


                  #9
                  I agree Jean-Loup,

                  there was nothing wrong with the transcription. Keep at it.

                  Bon Courage!
                  ------------------------------------------------
                  Collector of French ww2-era insignia.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Well, not many people voted, but at least nobody agrees with the old man that the text is complete nonsence.
                    I think I will use this text for my book anyways without saying the guys name.
                    JL

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Jean Loop - I think the gentleman is being ( more than ) a little over the top in his criticism , the event in fairness is not easy to describe nor is it straight forward.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by peleliuexplorer View Post
                        You obviously triggered an angry or sore spot with this man. Did you ask him what you can do different to make the story more accurate? His response seems unusual....maybe he has some dementia, alzheimer's or other psychiatric issue? Would he write down his experiences as he recalled them? I find nothing wrong with the narrative...it's quite moving. I'm puzzled by such a negative reaction...is there more to the story?

                        -eric
                        War is never an easy thing for men, especially when they are boys of 16 years old. Chances are you are stirring up memories that most men try to forget. As historians we must realize that not eveything is put out in the open, even the greatest generation (US, German, Soviet) had secrets. It is never easy to talk about taking a man's life, you see it in book after book. The only one who knows the full story is two people.... and one of them died over 60 years ago. Treat him gently, and talk to him compassionately and try to work something out.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Jean-Loup View Post
                          I think I will use this text for my book anyways without saying the guys name.
                          JL
                          In order to prevent potential lawsuits I would recommend a disclaimer. Using a person's personal story without permission could lead to potential litigation., at least here in the US.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Witness statements are unreliable even after an event happens add 60 yrs and...oh boy.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              "Witness statements are unreliable even after an event happens add 60 yrs and...oh boy."

                              Any type of historical document is in fact some form of witness statement. I always double check info with other witness accounts, and period documents. I am often suprised of how consistent the information is, either then for numbers, that are usualy multiplied by two or three, or much more. I guess seeing guys get gunned down beside you and barely escaping with your life is something difficult to forget about.

                              JL

                              Comment

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