Trip to Saigon

[On-to-Berlin]

Hello everyone!
I am currently working in China and will be in Vietnam in Oktober. I thought about going to Saigon for some sightseeing. Has anyone ever been there and done some tourism on the war memorials? Any other recommendation? Militaria shopping? Bunker tours?
Thanks in advance
Fabian

[sturmann]

Salut ,
Go to Hanoi
yves

[prussian.guard]

theres a guy in Hanoi who has a firing range,want to fire a pig(m60) he has one along with ak47s m16s cant remember the exact details it was a long time ago

[DennyB]

If you are buying...

Watch out for fake war souvenirs, I understand that they have dog-tag making machines that were left and are mass-producing them to sell to tourists. I would guess Viet Cong flags, poncho-liner embroidered jackets, patches, B.F. Goodrich sandals, and a host of other stuff too.
I would like to get one of their young women to come here to be my hoochmaid, my house is getting kind of messy.
DennyB

[Patrick Dempsey]

Militaria shopping?

Hello,

sadly i have never managed to visit (yet), but i do know a few friends who have visited since the late 1980's on a semi regular basis.

Regarding militaria, i would caution you to go with the lowest of expectations...
The markets are full of reproductions - which feed many "ebay" sellers offerings - that are peddled to tourists and returning Veterans.Very little original period militaria can be encountered today.

Enjoy the sights and country and post a thread of what you see!


Patrick.

[dblmed]

VN Trip.....

You'll have a Blast in Vietnam.....

Have visited twice & would gladly go back again.....
1st trip was mentally tough - as lots of friends were killed or wounded there & one cousin is still an MIA ......... but, with difficulty, life does go on.

SAIGON.....
I read that 60% of Vietnamese are < 30. They don't remember the war.
It was friendly, happy, busy, frenetic, and cosmopolitan....

1. Caravelle Hotel - the journalist's hot spot during the war.
2. Presidential Palace with Soviet Tank out front.
3. DO take a 'day' side trip to the Mekong Delta - is NOT to be missed.
4. Central Market - just walk and look and smell and enjoy.
5. Eat the tropical fruit - especially the Longins - my favorite.
6. Sea Food at the Nouc Sum restaurant. Whole crabs, shrimp, live Lobsters, what
else cold you want? (All LIVE in large aquariums, you pick 'em)
7. Go to Cholon, and see the Chinese Vietnamese section.
8. See the 'War Museum' for interest. Is biased, but Hell, it's their country.
9. Before going, watch the Movie...."Indochine" to get a bit of history.
11. ? Sp ? Chow Chi / Cao Chi Tunnels & shoot an AK-47, more fun....
10. Much, much more.....

"IF" you can go to Hanoi ......GO, it's totally different, but great.....
Let me know, and I'll tell you about Hanoi.

Enjoy ........Dave/dblmed

[SurvivingPanzer]

I'm surprised at the breadth of information in that last post. I would nbot think the area is too tourist friendly. I argee with the others though, I wouldnt trust anything I didnt find myself, and I think those jungles are still to dangerous to wander off the beaten path.

[On-to-Berlin]

Wow guy I am very impressed about the information! Thanks so far! I know the problem of the repro stuff since I was collecting Nam stuff pretty extensively at one point in my "collectors carrer". I will keep you updated on my trip! Pretty excited already now!

[bobofthedesert]

Went to Vietnam for a month, almost two years ago now. (note to self, time flying by at an increasingly rapid rate....or so it seems...)

As I did not live in the US at the time, I had the idea that I would pick up a few items that were not illegal where I lived. Wrong answer. If you had been there in the early 90's, Charlie would have sold you whatever you wanted. Around 1995, after a boatload of guns was found at the Port of Long Beach, and being desirous of access to the World Bank among other such concerns, the Vietnamese banned the export of ANY military items. When I was leaving the country, some poor guy with one of the fake "tunnel oil lamps" (made from a 40mmx46sr empty shell casing and sold at every souvenir stand in the country) had his bags pulled aside at the x-ray machine. All outgoing baggage is x-rayed right by the ticket counter soon after you give it up so that if you have something, they can deal with it right there. Trust me, you are bringing nothing back from Vietnam. I had a vision of some police guy who works at the airport taking a box of all this stuff back to his cousin's souvenir stand a couple times a month so it could be resold. Just because you can buy it there does not mean you can leave with it, fake dogtags and artificially aged zippo's are OK though.

I can recommend the museums in Saigon/HCMC and Hanoi. As observed above, the language the government uses to describe the history of "The American War" as they call it, is very dogmatic, "heroic People's Army this, Imperialist American aggressors that". The sign in English is "War Remnants Museum", in Vietnamese it's a different, less neutral name....

After the digital I ordered for the trip failed to arrive in time, I wound up using a borrowed 35mm film camera to take numerous pictures of weapons displays in a half a dozen museums. Lots of duplication of content, the same Huey and F-5 outside two or three museums in Saigon/HCMC, with the Air Force museum in Hanoi having a half dozen Mig-21's parked out front. Still worth a look though.

Some real rare weapons in the War Remnants Museum in Saigon/HCMC. Think
M3 grease gun with 2 stage Bell Labs suppressor, Colt XM16E1 marked rifle with XM148 40mm launcher also by Colt attached, non attributable guns like the Madsen M50 9mm SMG and the Uzi, a Mk20 mod 0 40mm belt fed launcher, and the absolute best piece in the museum, a 40mm pump action grenade launcher manufactured at China Lake Naval Station during the war for use by SEAL Teams 1 and 2, serial number 013 of about 20 ever made. After getting permission from the Ministry of Culture, the Director of the museum was good enough to have his staff open the locked display case, remove the brackets screwed into the wall, and allow me to fondle the weapon and even partially
disassemble it. It wasn't a bad consolation prize for not being able to bring anything home. Make sure you buy a $3.00 People's Army pith helmet at the smaller souvenir stand down by the prison cell display.

Lots of other stuff to see in Vietnam. Don't bother with the Cu Chi tunnel tour unless you just have nothing better to do that day, there is Cu Chi 1 and Cu Chi 2, both are fake. The "tunnel" has one entrance and one exit, and was dug just for you to walk thru. The spider pits are just holes, not connected to any tunnel structure. The bunkers are like wise not connected to anything, the whole thing is just a display to bring tourists to. The range next to all this will charge you $1.00 per round. They didn't seem to be up on the fact that I could buy an AK in the States for $400 and ammo for $150/thousand. They really thought this range/souvenir shop (same fake dogtags, aged zippo's, "genuine" tunnel lamps/bic light holders) was a big deal. It's all run by the Army, and they get the money you spend there.

Make sure you go to the Caravelle Hotel's rooftop bar where the CIA types hung out during the war. Get a table next to the ledge and look out over Saigon at night while sipping your Long Island Iced Tea. Repeat.

I enjoyed my time there, and would like to return. If I did it again, I'd make better use of the time to see more of SE Asia. Start in Hanoi, south to Saigon/HCMC, over to Cambodia and then on to Thailand. Drink bottled water only and get all your shots, especially hepatitis, before you go. Buy silk; shirts dresses etc. You can't beat the prices. Never pay sticker, negotiate everything.
Bring your postcards home with you, it's like $2.00 to mail one, and you can only do it from the Central Post Office.

Go soon. Vietnam is changing fast in the urban area's. I saw a modern fashion boutique with a security guard out front, in the alley around the corner mama san and her kids were smashing old VHS tape cassettes for the sprockets
inside to be collected and recycled. Thats how they made their living. Quite the contrast. Average income is still only $350 US a year, so don't forget to tip.

[sscrooge]

s

if you go on you tube and type in boggy on the m60 you will see the firing range these are some of my mates on it when they went there,they have also shown a clip on the ak47, i tried to post a link for it but failed,

[hochiminhtrail]

well it all depends how long you are gona stay, if it s for 2 weeks dont bother cruising all over the country north to south, it s just to big , forget the cu chi tunnels,
for the real war zone Like Dak To, kham Duc, Duc Pho, Pley Me, ect.... all located in the central highlands it would be better to go with a rented motorbike, of course you will not see any of the camps any more, except the landing strip in Dak To, but touring the central highlands is the best, at least for me, i m not really into the mekong delta, i prefer to hang arround ethinc minorities in Vietnam, some still speak english or french, you get invited in their houses and you get drunk on Jar wine,(great stuff i love it).
rent a bike and start in saigon and you follow highway 13( if i rember well)
one night in Ban Me Thout, then on your way to Pleycu, then up to Kontum there you can stay 2 to 3 nights and visit the Bahnar minorities of the area, then drive to Dak to it s only about 40 kilometers from Kontum, and then you follow the road north to Kham Duc one night there and then you join the coast direction Hoi An were you can go to the beach. this is quite a big loop and you will at least need 12 to 14 days to enjoy it and to reach back Saigon.


if you go into the north you can make a big loop from hanoi via Son La passing by Dien Bien Phu and ending in Sapa and then back to hanoi, its advertised all over hanoi in tourist agencies, or you can rent your own driver with car, duration of the trip 4 to 5 days, i payed last time 250$ for a driver and car, attention this price was years ago, and i heard that prices went up, so check it out ask your hotel, ask all the small agencies in Hanoi.
The trip is very nice and the landscape is amazing, the minorities in the north are less hospitable then in the south, but they still wear traditional clothing, so very nice.

the other trip in the north is the other loop starting in Hanoi again go to Ba Be lake then to Cao bang driving down the RC4 to Lang Son to finaly come down to Ha long bay, this trip is not as nice, as the trip to Dien Bien Phu, but still intersting because of the history of Cao Bang during the french colonial period, the minorities there are wearing less traditional tunics then in DB PHU area.

My Opinion forget Ha Long Bay, chinese tourist trap.

then there is the Danang area with Hue, i personaly love Hue, here again because of its modern history, here again you can try to go to the Ashau Valley and then heading north to see Khe Sanh, very nice area, i m not sure if the road to the Ashau valley is free to go, when i went there first in 1996 it was forbiden for foreigners to go, but this might have changed?
other wise you have tour busses that go to khe sanh from Hue.

Chu Lai is today a Vnmilitary base, so you can not go in there.

if you only saty in the saigon area, then go down in the mekong delta, forget My Tho it s not that nice,
go to Long Xuyen or Chau Doc, it s a littel bít further away but its nice.

If you have 4 weeks you can do it all maybe not all but a big part, if you are there for a short time, i will recomend to chose a region and stick to it, and next time you to the rest.

as said before by other members forget military items, it s so hard to get original stuff.


enjoy VN

take care

Alex

[sunkist]

yup,try the local tropical fruits,logans,rambutans and many more!! Be careful on how you show/display your personal stuffs i.e. bags wallets,pouches.

A waist pouch in front of you is good and better than a backpack,look around before you take your wallet out to pay for stuffs.


Sim

[sscrooge]

s

yes seriously take care, my mates were followed everywhere by swarms of them guys with them little mopeds with chairs on back,, eventually they got in 1 each just round corner from their hotel should have been a few minutes trip but they shot off with 2 of my mates straight off into the sunset in to the shanty towns 1 of my mates was surrounded by tons of villagers he threw his money into the air and made a run for it,he managed to dive in a taxi as they surrounded him again trying to get him,he threatened the taxi driver who at 1st wouldnt drive off,but eventually he got away as driving down the road saw my other mate legging it down road with a tribe chasing him,he stopped and picked him up, so be careful where and what you do.

[pete]

.

Well I checked out the "militaria street" in Hanoi, which is near the railway, called Le Duan street. I observed the following:

-Mostly trendy or Vietnamese army clothing, very little Vietnam era stuff at all.

In one shop only:

-Lots of brand new original second and third pattern US jungle sets with dates like 68, 69, 70. I only saw one badged jungle shirt, marked Lorenz, USAF, Sgt airforce rank, heavily sun faded material and badges and seemingly dirty spattered with some kind of reddish stains all over.
-several slightly used full collar flak vests. Some with no armour inside, and they have some trendy copies of flak vests turned into vests.
-boxes of brand new US jungle boots, 163$ a pair, all dated 67, made by ro search , bata or CIC, sizes 9,10,11N. These are right inside several original stores cardboard boxes from 67, 68 with all numbers stencilled.
-lots of brand new and used OD silver zipper m-65 jackets, not badged apart from US army in stitching, or one USAF coloured patch sgts rank jacket and USAF tape.
-lots of modern us bdu and hats.
-a few us gas mask bags.

Most other shops had the trendy stuff or copies.

I get the suspicion alot of this is probably brought from korea, (because there was modern Korean stuff mixed in) and sold to tourists. I'll check out Saigon HCMC when I can. I'm going to be going to battle areas on a daily basis, I will see what comes out of the ground with the mine detectors in the scrap metal pits of many places in the former operational areas.


Best regards,

Pete

[Brian L.]

I hate to rain on anyone's parade. But, it's wishful thinking looking for anything from the war, let alone bargains, these days.

I have lived in SE Asia for 22 years and spent time in Vietnam in 2001 and then worked in Hanoi from 2011-12. I shared a house with a US Viet vet who had been an interrogator during the war, had worked in construction and as a teacher in Hanoi in the late 80s and the early 90s, worked with me from 2011-2012 when I was a college director in Hanoi and again when he went back from 2013-16 as a director of a US university in Hanoi and HCM.

I didn't find much when I went there even 18 years ago. There was a pile of US helmets and bayonets at one end of Le Duan and a few trinkets in shops, then. But, this was long gone by the time they renovated and gentrified the street in the mid-2000s. My buddy told me that Vietnam was basically picked clean of most stuff by the mid-90s. Anything left is either in private collections in Vietnam or under lock and key in antique shops in Hanoi and HCM. There hasn't been anything of value on Le Duan St. in 20 years. It's a tourist trap.

The Vietnamese aren't stupid. They know what this stuff is worth. You need to know someone and speak the lingo, if you want to get anything that's still there. Also, the Vietnamese have metal detectors and have been digging the battlefields for years and selling what they find as souvenirs.

The country has developed rapidly even in the last 8 years since I lived there and continues to do so. There are a burgeoning middle and upper middle class, especially in Hanoi. Lots of Vietnamese are rich from real estate development.

So just like you haven't been able to go to Germany since the early 60s and buy truckloads of TR stuff in junk shops, you can't do it in Vietnam, either.

You'd likely have better luck finding stuff in Bangkok (where I live now). Although, even there it won't be cheap.