Military Service Helpful?

[DJT]

I was just curious to know if having military service make a difference to the quality of re-enactor? Can a civilian doing re-enactment really grasp discipline, tactics, obeying orders, marching in step, keeping kit and uniforms clean etc etc.

When your in the army that stuff gets drilled into you so it becomes second nature and you dont question it. I would imagine civilians with no prior military experience would have trouble getting the hang of this stuff or doing it without lots of moaning and griping Thoughts?

Regards,

Des

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Des, it can be a double edged sword. There are several lads who served and they make good teachers, especially for helping in marching and drill. With regards to keeping kit in good order, I think that the price of kit nowadays makes sure this is done!
Most groups are pretty demorcratic, so there is very little moaning about doing jobs as everyone does there fair share. Sometimes one or two do need a little encouragement to get out of bed!

But I have found that sometimes a former British squaddie can make a bad re-enactor. Often they remain in the modern mindset of soldiering today, i.e. excess drinking and starting trouble There was one group within the UK, who have now disbanded, thank God, who were all ex Army and were a total disgrace to the uniform and memory of the Vets.

Cheers, Ade.

[Ian Jewison]

I read this post with interest, being an ex squaddie myself re-enacting does not interest me at all, but neither does paint balling and being a member of the TA!

However, I could understand the squaddie could be too regimented as the civvy may or may not be used to such strict regimentality and maybe soon lose interest.....re-enactors appear do it for the love of the hobby which keeps them going...being a squaddie is your job even if it does involve drinking copius amounts of beer

I must admit, being a para myself, I read with aproval your post Ade where you do not wear medal ribbons and at least your "paras" are jump trained.....I do not agree with people wearing awards they are not entitled too.....but you must all attempt your own "P-Company"!!!!

Maybe you could have your medic do a St-John's Ambulance course.....your radio operator buy one of those Tandy "do-it-yourself" radio kits....you could do a form of detachment/section commanders course (I still have my notes!!!) and your chef...well were they ever trained!?!?!?!?!?

Regards, Ian

[maxstiebritz]

Hi Des, it can be a double edged sword. There are several lads who served and they make good teachers, especially for helping in marching and drill. With regards to keeping kit in good order, I think that the price of kit nowadays makes sure this is done!

This is so true - Some guys who have military experience have came out and truly helped out by teaching others and demonstrating what they should be doing. Then again I have seen others that are the complete opposite.

I guess all depends on the individuals and what they what to accomplish with their reenacting. We tend to like a mixture of ex-military and non-military recruits in our group. It ballances out the ideal of the citizen soldier

[Simon O.]

Interesting thread, i'm not a re-enactor myself but i am an ex-squaddie. Max seems to hit the nail on the head quite well i think, it boils down to the individual, what the group is trying to achieve and a good mix of civvies and squaddies.


Ade
I hear what you're saying re. the all squaddie group and good riddance to 'em if they were acting like d***eads but i would point out that the 'modern mindset' you're refering to is nothing compared to times past. In a strange kind of way drunkeness is as much a part of the history of the British army as anything, oh i'm not condoning it but ironically enough it is in character when playing the part of a British squaddie.


Simon

[Prosper Keating]

If someone wears a military uniform for the purposes of a genuine historical display or re-enactment in the cause of educating the public and in an appropriate context, then I can tolerate seeing parachute wings and decorations being worn. I know one group here in France who go to the Normandy commemorations dressed as a platoon from the East Surrey Regiment. They do it to show younger generations what the old boys milling about in blue blazers, berets and medals looked like 60 years ago. That is absolutely fine by me. So are the guys who jumped from a Dakota near Merville last year in WW2 British kit. No problem...especially as I know that the ones who had never earned parachute wings weren't wearing any on their smocks or BD. A few of the genuine ex-paras who jumped were...which is of course perfectly allowable. What Ade and his guys do is absolutely fine by me because it really is living history. Their motives are healthy and positive.

However, while I am far more mellow than I used to be, as a former paratrooper, I still bristle when I see some fat, soft-faced clown dancing about the woods with his mates, dressed in the uniforms of elite units they could never have joined, awarding each other the EKII and so on for turning up a set number of times, or the Kretaband for being able to sing Auf Kreta in Sturm und in Regen. That's unhealthy. The motives of many of the people who dress up as, for example, members of the LSSAH, telling anyone who'll stand still long enough that they're not Nazi sympathisers, and swagger about in the uniforms of an organisation that would probably have shot them on sight as untermensch are also far from healthy.

And as for these 'Fallschirmjäger' re-enactors who swagger about sporting the FSA and telling people that they've earned them because they have jumped from a plane, I am afraid that making a sports jump or two from a Cessna in an empty sky at 3000 feet, while it requires a lot of courage, doesn't begin to equate to military parachuting. Perhaps holding the parachute wings of their country makes it less of a sin but I still take a dim view of it. I hold Bundeswehr wings but you wouldn't see me putting on a German WW2 jump badge to play soldiers in the woods. I see it as disrespectful. Maybe I am too harsh but it's just my personal opinion.

I'll be hated by a few people for saying this but what the hell! It needs to be said.

Prosper Keating

[Paul B]

Para Reenactors

Strangely enough, I bumped into a guy yesterday who is a member of the FJR 6 re-enactment group. Amongst other things, he told me that they also have a policy of not wearing the FSA unless you have actually jumped, and that there members are actively encouraged to complete several jumps -many have earned their Dutch wings- and one of their main organisers is a currently with the TA Parachute Regiment. The interesting thing is that they are sometimes joined by a genuine ex-Fallschirmjager, a guy who served in Italy but now lives in Derbyshire -Ade probably knows him. I personally don't like to see wings being worn by anyone who hasn't jumped -it's as fundamental as portraying an infantry unit and not bothering to learn how to strip and clean your K98, if you are portraying an Airborne soldier then you should have at least some idea of what it takes to jump -albeit that even completing a modern static line course is nothing like dropping onto Crete with a load of angry New Zealanders shooting at you..! Groups like Ade's deserve full credit for taking this further step towards authenticity, and doing justice to the surviving vets in the process. I think Prosper has hit the nail on the head with his point about the motivation of some people in other groups who perhaps wear certain qualifications and awards for more self-serving purposes -not only is this questionable, but to Joe public on a day out, there is no way of knowing whether a re-enactor has gone to the time, effort and expense to do a jump course, or whether he just ordered his FSA from the Nicholas Morigi catalogue. I think on balance awards and qualification badges are essential to a correct historical presentation, but the basis for their wear, and the motivation behind it, must be sound. Just my opinion as a non-re-enacting Imperial German collector... All the best, Paul.