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**Rich G** · 05-29-2003, 12:22 PM

Jack

I've read that some units have original tunics for when on display and use their repros for when they're 'in the field'. With that in mind it must be extremely difficult not only to get a good original tunic/pants but also in the right size! Not to mentiion price of an elite unit like waffen SS/FJ/Grossdeutchsland, etc.

I'm not a re-enactor (nothing local to me anyway) but if I were I'd use all original field gear, all of the time. (like you say it's been through a war a survived so I don't think there's any likelyhood of it falling apart now!)

Rich

**Brian M** · 05-29-2003, 06:59 PM

I use some. items like bayonet frogs and breadbags are cheaper than repros anyhow.
When and if they ever do sell, someone in the unit will buy them, or put them on Ebay, then you will at least get most of your money out of them. things like my Flieger and helmet I will probably never sell. just because by the time (if ever) that I leave the hobby, they will be a keepsake full of memories for me.
as far as personal or display items, as far as I'm concerned it has to be 100% wartime and correct. no exceptions. no Walmart substitutes, etc.
in the field, my bread bag, canteen, mess kit, watch, flashlight, belt buckles, and weapons are 100% period and original.
I do not like the idea of ruining any other type of gear or uniform equipment. otherwise everything is identical post war German, or acceptably modified, or top of the line repro.
I am a stickler on weapons especially and try and get this to rub off on the unit. but we still have a majority with Yugo 98's and it eats away at the stitch Nazi within me. since I took over the unit armorer position, I do not allow future purchases of Yugos, only wartime 98's (you can buy nice Russian capture 98's for $200-250 at shows with all the markings). why buy a Yugo you can't show off at living histories? that is my single biggest gripe.
everything must be as authentic and accurate with me as possible, or I am not happy.

**J Melvin** · 05-29-2003, 08:22 PM

Richard, I searched long and hard for an original uniform that would fit me and was lucky to put it together. I can literally walk into a public display 100% head to toe wartime issue Luftwaffe items. But, bigger sizes are tough. I was shocked to find a US44 size fliegerbluse and 34 trousers.

Brian, we don't allow the Yugos. Luckily, almost everyone in my unit is some kind of gun fanatic, so that is their pride and joy. My problem is keeping the number of G43s and MP40s down. We have 15 on paper. Of those 15, six of us own MP40s and another 4 or 5 have G43s. We've also got two gas MG42s. I don't care for the gas guns, but the hobby is evolving towards them. With an original full auto running in excess of $20K, there is little chance that many will be in the hobby for much longer.

**Brian M** · 05-29-2003, 10:07 PM

I agree, the cost of Class 3 weapons is for the most part prohibitive. semi-auto Mg34/42's and gas guns are going to be the only option soon to counter the floods of Garands.

I hate the Yugos, but it is a problem I inherited with joining this unit, as it was allowed and accepted to purchase them before my time.

I am however very strict with my Armorer's duties. I carry a field armorer's kit complete with spare parts and tools, and do all the units repairs work. I also keep very up to date and accurate logs of unit members and candidates weapon gear (as any good waffenmeister should) and make sure everything is serviced, headspaces, problem free etc. training them on disassembly, cleaning, etc. during events in our free time when we are not drilling.
the logs also help me to know who has what and who needs what, and keeps ratios in hand.

I know a particular Heer unit with three squads completely armed with G43's. this is so ridiculous it is completely laughable.

we allow no more than 2-3 semi-auto rifles at an event depending on our unit composition and size. ideally we would like more class 3, but are currently limited to one Mp-40 and one Mp-44. we could be completely armed with Mp-40's or M38a's and be historically accurate. an FG42 would also be nice, but we are realistic.
since we do F.J. we should all carry sidearms.
I allow only 9mm full size pistols. we are very P-38 heavy, so I am putting a freeze on them. we have just lost our only Luger owner, but just gained another one, and also picked up one Vis Radom and one Fn Hi-Power. (we are limiting it to one each of those for now, and want to pick up at least 2 more Lugers next to make a nice wartime balance.) we are also heavy on black holsters and I want to see the next couple be brown, and add a soft shell or two into the mix for more wartime diversity. for those who cannot afford a pistol for a sidearm, an Sg-98 bayonet is mandatory, as is a dress bayo for walking out wear.

**Ardennes** · 05-30-2003, 08:16 AM

......

WOW

are all the g43's out there East of the Mississippi?

Of the two units I belong to, I'd say we are about 90% K98's and typically face 95% garands...We have 2 gas fired MG's and 2 MP40's (when they show up). Rumor has it there will be a PPsh (in the SS unit) showing up soon and potentially a Beretta 38A in the FJ unit. In the FJ unit, we are luger poor too - that seems to be common now days?

Brian - I have to say your work as unit armorer sounds quite impressive. I guess it must be a midwest thing, but for the most part we have little trouble with our members and weapons.

Funny thing happened, last battle I attended the GI's had one Garand amongs a sea of Springfields - it was heaven!

**Brian M** · 05-30-2003, 11:14 AM

G43's are funny creatures. for their relative scarcity (462,000 produced) compared to K98's (14,000,000 produced), they seem to be relatively common in the northeast. and for some strange reason, nice 98k's are extremely hard to find here.

for that reason, even late in the war, a unit of squad size might be lucky to have 2 semi auto rifles. I have seen some late war photos with units with as many as three K43's, but this is by far not the norm. three squads of G43 toting Wehrmacht is rediculous.

don't get me wrong, I really love the rifles, they fascinate me, but realism and being realistic is what keeps this hobby alive. I know most of the guys in that unit, and they are all great guys, but in a unit of that size, only perhaps three soldats should have a semi-auto rifle, and they would be NCO's, perhaps a senior private or specialists.
I do realize the lack of Mp-40's and squad MG's really dampens our firepower potential in the field, and the cost of a semi-auto for firepower is 1/4 to 1/5 that of an Mp-40, but you can obviously get too carried away here.
in our entire K.G. we have four G/K43's that we utilize in the field. I have one, another member of my unit has one that was recently sold to him by a unit member who left our ranks. we have a third that is a loaner..... it belongs to our unit leader and he carries an Mp-40, so 2nd in command sometimes carries his G43. one of the members of Sturm Regt. also carries a G43, and that makes 4. when we fight with them, I serve in the MG. squad as "A" gunner, so one squad has 2, the other has one, and the MG team has one... it is a good weapon for the support role of the MG34. when we are together with the KG. we usually field 15-20 men, so even 4 semi autos is almost a stretch, and a fifth would be too many.
at some point in the near future I will have a shooter G41W completed and ready for service, and will bring that to some events just for diversity.

**hcliffe** · 05-30-2003, 12:04 PM

I've been reenacting since 1975 when all we had were original tunics. I recommend against wearing almost any original stuff now because the repro stuff is made so close to the originals. Y straps, breadbags etc. Sure, maybe it goes down a little in value, but most items in hobbies do. I've seen original Y straps and M36 pants torn to shreds by reenactors crawling through the woods. Not for me anymore. I wear good looking repro/post war stuff that is a good copy and feel fine about dragging it through the mud without worrying about sitting on my canteen etc. The leather and threads on most originals has just about had it under any kind of stress. Of course, just my opinion.

**Ardennes** · 05-30-2003, 12:57 PM

.........

Just the thought of going into the field in a real uniform gives me the heebie jeebies

as clutzy as I am I'd ruin a good $1000 piece first day out!

**Adrian Stevenson** · 05-31-2003, 04:58 AM

Hi Guys, I must say that when I began in re-enactment back in 1979 the thought of wearing non original kit was unthinkable.

Uniforms and kit back then were still affordable and around in quantity. But times have changed in the last few years. (I must admit that I wore out my first Denisson smock

)
Good reproduction uniforms are now available and we now wear repro Denisson smocks and the special Parachutists BD trousers. Everything else still remains original. For very special events we still wear originals, mainly events with the Vets.
Cheers, Ade.

Join Date: Nov 2024 · 06-06-2003, 05:16 PM

small question for Harry and Ade :

Do you still have pictures of those good ol' times? Would love to see it!

cheers

Jan

**Jean-Loup** · 06-07-2003, 07:16 AM

Hi
I dont see how anyone who considers himself a collector would wear original tunics, helmets, etc.. to go to events.
If you tried to find all your kit first hand (from vets or their famillies) , you would understand the real rarity rarity of the items.
"like you say it's been through a war a survived so I don't think there's any likelyhood of it falling apart now!" That must be the most ridicoulus thing I have heard in a while. Do I even have to explain why???

JL

**maxstiebritz** · 06-26-2003, 05:34 PM

Repro vs: Original

What's everyones take on the usage of original gear. I tell my people that if they can afford it, buy original field gear. The cost is a bit more (and in some cases, a bit less) than reproduction gear.

Jack - This may get me in trouble. My unit does condone usage of original uniform (only one guy in our group uses a few uniform parts) or leather gear to a certain degree. In WW1 we do allow the usage of original equipment such as 98/05 Butchers, Stalhelms, Gas Masks, Canteens, Tornisters, etc...We however strongly suggest that leathers be re-pro because the original leather goods just don't hold up to the strain.

Unfortunately in WW1 reenacting there is not a lot of Great War Vendors and until late a few new vendors out in cyber land that are starting to make quality repros.

We push the newer guys to purchase from these vendors and get the repros. Also we then ask the older guys to replace their worn out gear with with same repros. We are trying to push the original kits out but its hard to convince a guy to buy a $300 repro tornister when an original is $150 bucks.

**Willi Z.** · 06-28-2003, 09:59 AM

The various impressions all have different needs and specific problems. Anyone wearing all original FJ stuff would simply be foolish today, though it was common 20 or 30 years ago. Our unit does very hard field events, and it would be a terrible shame to ruin a pair of original FJ trousers, which start at $3000 on the market today.

The only item that I now wear that is original is a repainted size 71 FJ helmet shell, but I do now have various repros for different FJ impressions. And, I use original Zeltbahns, hang an original RZ20 chute canaopy for shade and rucksacks. Some guys do wear a bread bag or canteen, or a buckle. Since we are now doing more living history events/airshows to supplement our field events we have been buying vintage German ammo crates, parachute storage cans, etc. This adds to look of the site.

The trouble with weapons is as many have descibed; the originals are getting so damn expensive. We have allowed Yugo guns in the past, would prefer that new guys not buy them. At least they are still original k98s. We don't allow gas guns. A 20-man unit only needs one nice MG to do well in the field. As mentioned before, to me it is all about tactics. A k98 is just as effective as a Garand, we have to stop worrying about how much noise someone creates. 70% of a German squad carried k98s. We allow 1 k43 per squad....it is just not realistic even for the latest timeframes.

Willi

**Lars11thpz** · 07-27-2003, 12:28 PM

Our unit allows only WWII issue rifles. We have about 80% K98's, all wartime issue. Eastern front events, there is an SVT or an AVT or two. Two members have G41/43's, one is a squad leader, one an Uffz. Our Unterfeld carries only a P38 and up to 3 rubber knives concealed on his person. I have seen him "surrender" numerous times, giving up his pistol, only to wind up standing over several allied corpses moments later. Nobody expects rubber kinves, let me tell you,

We are working on getting an MG again (the one guy who owned the 34 AND the 42 moved

and our guy with 2 MP40's left to form his own unit

)
I'd like to think the SdKfz232 makes up for it, but MG's are really the core of german infantry, and we need one.

Lars

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