Discussion on French laws regarding the war

[scotty1418]

I remember a vigorous discussion here quite a while back about how suggesting certain things under the French law could be illegal. These were such as a battle not happening the way it was stated in the history books, things of that nature.

If anyone can point me in the direction of this I'd be appreciative.

Also, if any French members can speak at any length of the French law systems when it comes to dealing with the wartime past I'd be appreciative.

Scott

[Fred S]

If you have specific questions I can try to help you.

Roughly I can say that it's forbidden to exhib nazis items (but not to own them, makes big difference, regarding some US Ebay sellers... ), to glorify nazis actions, negationnism and revisionism are of course forbidden as well.

It's still difficult, most of times, to have a neutral conversation about war in France: as an occupied nation, most of people will tell you that germans were "evil", cos of what they have seen at one time or heard. And the story goes on with people now telling what their parents or great parents told them.

Of course the occupation was a bad moment, as for other occupied european countries, but I can't trust someone that see the world in white, or in black. I'll believe in shades of grey....

As well, after we ended sterile wars against England, Germany WAS then THE enemy, and still it is for a lot of people. Near oradour or Tulle, for example, german tourists were "persona non grata" till the 70's...

[scotty1418]

Hello,

Thanks for the response. I'm curious if you're familiar with Robert Paxton's initial book, La France de Vichy?

I was more interested in specifically laws that make it illegal to discuss events of the occupation and vichy period as having happened other than how they did?

Mostly on the thread of negationism and what French laws concern it? thanks!

scott

[Fred S]

You're welcome Scott!

Sorry i don't know that book.

let's resume :Vichy is bad, Resistance is great! So must go the discussions here.

You can discuss of the war, occupation, Vichy...but it's a crime to tell that it wasn't so hard, or that it was good.

Negationnism is strictly forbiden: NO WAY to speak about it. Process and penal sanction is the french law answer.

[Jean-Loup]

Interestingly, during the many interviews I have been making with french civilians for my book project, I have not found a single person who told me: "the resistance were heroes", or event many positive things about them at all. As for the Germans, I havn't found so many people who had deep feelings of hatred for them. The general view is usualy "they had to do what they were told". Many people are still very impressed by the americans, especialy people who were just teenagers in 1944: all the rations, trucks, tanks, airplanes, left a deep impression.
About the resistance, quite a lot of people had very mixed feelings about them, saying "there were the good ones, and the bad ones".
All this "popular" view of things is rather different from the official version.
By the way, all the people I spoke to are from the region of Nice, that was only occupied by Germans for about 9 months, and was occupied by italians the rest of the time, so things didnt get as hardcore as elsewhere.

JL

[scotty1418]

I have just recently read Robert Paxton's "Vichy France" which I found very helpful about the complexities of the government.

Aussi, je viens de regarder le documentaire "Le Chagrin et la Pitie".

Wohlhans et Jean-Loupe, pouvez-vous me citer des exemples ou des noms de loi a propos du negationnisme?

En plus, y a-t-il quelques exemples des infractions a cause de ce loi?

Merci en avance
scott

[Fred S]

Tr******232;s bon fran******231;ais!

Have seen a few years ago "le chagrin et la piti******233;", pretty good (but my main interest in the movie was Christian de la M...., ex waffen SS).

If you're searching about negationnism in France, main keywords would be
"Faurisson, Gollnisch, negationnisme". I have no interest in the subject so i won't be the best person to help you, sorry.

A link, for example:
http://www.liberation.fr/actualite/s...R.php?rss=true

Salut Jean Loup

About the resistance/heroes problem, I think It's still subjective:
a communist will have problems to call a FFI an hero, other way a gaulist won't call a FTP a hero, I think. The problem is as well than most true resistant didn't want to appear as hero, we had a lot of "characters" by the end of war.

About the german it depends of the area and of personnal feelings, I think.
Where I live one maquis was attacked by german: a lot of young men from the area died, one of them, was dragged alive till death behind a german car for a few kms: the ones who remember it still hate german, one of them is the father of a friend.

I grew up in Paris, and so did one of my greatfathers.
He couldn't stand german: he had to leave school cos of them, nothing to eat,...a lot of griefs, but he told me that some of them were good.
He told me a nice story: one day he heard one well known NCO that was whistled the "International" song. He was really surprised, and the NCO was a bit "nervous", and told my GF that he was communist (as my GF) but nobody had to now, otherwise he would quickly end near the Volga....
For my GF this NCO was ok.

[scotty1418]

Thank you for your help. I'm not sure if your link works though?

Scott

[Fred S]

Maybe this one?

http://www.liberation.fr/actualite/s.../229522.FR.php