First Two POLISH F-16!!!

[Chris Boonzaier]

The problem buying from other countries... you say something you dont like... and they dont send you any spare parts....

[Theodor]

especially some ceartain countries Buying ther aircraft is indeed not only military, but also political choice. Poland does not seem too keen to be close with Russia, actually the countries are not very happy with each other, like the current matter for the gas - Russia cutting Poland out of the deal with the plans for a pipe directly to Germany, Poland ignored.

Also, what about the cost? I guess the F-16 are cheaper than the MiG and Su, also probably the cost-per-hour of flight is much cheaper - haven't checked this out, maybe someone can show the rates?

[paddywhack]

the MIGs and SU may be old but so is the F16/14/15s!!!! i reckon upgradinbg the ruski aircraft would be cheaper and as for spare parts most eastern european countries have MIGS etc so i reckon they woulda been a better choice!! ah well!

[CCN]

If they had a choice between the F-16 or Mig-29, then Poland has made a wise choice IM (biased) O. I worked on the F-16 for many years and always thought that the Mig was beautiful. When I finally had a chance to inspect the Mig-29, I was still impressed with with its design, but not all that impressed with its archaic quality or craftsmanship. Maybe simpler is better as I remember many long nights trying to fix F-16 wiring problems that turned into science projects, but the Mig looked like it was held together with Bondo.

[Theodor]

the MIGs and SU may be old but so is the F16/14/15s!!!! i reckon upgradinbg the ruski aircraft would be cheaper and as for spare parts most eastern european countries have MIGS etc so i reckon they woulda been a better choice!! ah well!

We have mig-29 and these are upgraded from time to time.... tell me about "cheaper" Both hard going process and expensive...

[bnz. 42]

i would have thought the mig 29 would have been better then the f-16! why didnt you guys get some cut price su 27 flankers of the ruskis!!?? now THEY rock!!!

Yes, Russians Rock!
But SU-27 is an old model now. Have you seen this new SU-47?

[paddywhack]

now THAT is a bad a$$ plane!!!!

[Tiger 1]

The Russians won't sell their latest model of fighter any sooner than the US will theirs. Get real, none of the aircraft discussed are 'junk'. The F-16 doesn't go from the foremost tactical fighter aircraft in the to 'junk' in such a short time. They are still head and shoulders above many of the world's current fighter aircraft and will hold it's own against most others.

Equiptment is just one factor. The skill, determination and fighting spirit of the pilot is often the deciding factor in air combat. I'm sure, if past displays of courage in combat are any indication the Poles certainly do not lack these qualities.

The Russians are still a power to be recond with if the leadership in the Kremlin decides to once again 'expand' it's territory to the previous expanse of the old soviet union. This alone makes many of it's neighbors cautious. If the Poles did in fact get their major defensive arms from Russia what would preclude the Russians from withholding parts and supplies in an effort to subvert Poland's fighting capability if that circumstance ever arose?

The answers are never easy nor simple.

Tony

[allanb4570]

F-16

Men,
The aircraft platform may be old, but the aircraft Poland is receiving are brand spanking new. And I'm sure politics has an important role, as stated earlier in this thread, if you can't get parts, you can't fly!

Here's the offical Lockheed-Martin press release.
LMC Rolls Out Poland F-16, NATO's Most Advanced Fighter (Posted: Friday, September 15, 2006)
[Lockheed Martin News Release]

FORT WORTH, Texas, Sept. 15, 2006 – Ceremonies were held today at Lockheed Martin [NYSE: LMT] in Fort Worth, Texas, to commemorate the Polish F-16 Peace Sky program. The ceremony marks an important production milestone, demonstrating that the program is on schedule and on budget. When delivered, the Polish F-16 will be the most advanced fighter aircraft in NATO.

One of the first F-16s produced for the Poland Air Force is shown on an acceptance flight from the Lockheed Martin facility in Fort Worth, Texas. (Lockheed Martin photo) (Click on photo for an enlarged view)

Dignitaries attending the commemorative ceremony included Jaroslaw Kaczynski, Prime Minister of the Republic of Poland; Anna Fotyga, minister of foreign affairs; Rados³aw Sikorski, minister of national defense; Lt. Gen. Stanislaw Targosz, commander of the Poland Air Force; and other senior Polish officials. Representing the U.S. Government were U.S. ambassador to Poland Victor Ashe; Gen. T. Michael Moseley, chief of staff of the U.S. Air Force; and Bruce Lemkin, deputy undersecretary of the U.S. Air Force for International Affairs. Hosting the ceremony were Ralph D. Heath, executive vice president of Lockheed Martin and president of Lockheed Martin Aeronautics, and June R. Shrewsbury, vice president of F-16 Programs.

“Poland is delighted to be taking delivery of an aircraft that will not only transform our capabilities in the air but also those of our ground troops and the Navy,” said Minister of Defense Sikorski. “It will also significantly bolster the operational capacity of our expeditionary forces.”

The Poland Peace Sky Program began in April 2003. Today’s rollout commemorates the 48 F-16s that Lockheed Martin is producing for Poland. The aircraft joins a fleet of more than 4,300 F-16s operated by 24 air forces around the world.

“This is a great day for Poland and the United States,” said Deputy Undersecretary Lemkin. “The Polish Air Force now will be flying a frontline, top-performance fighter, virtually the same F-16 being flown by the U.S. Air Force. The Peace Sky program is the centerpiece of an enduring relationship between our air forces and will allow us to train together, operate together, fly together and learn from one another. These F-16s will provide the foundation of interoperability that will enable us to carry out operations as NATO and coalition partners.”

Commander of the Poland Air Force Targosz expressed pride that Poland has acquired such advanced F-16s. “The Poland Air Force is proud to accept our new F-16 today,” he said. “Poland now has the most technologically advanced F-16s in NATO, strengthening not only the Poland Air Force, but improving our interoperability with other F-16 operators in the NATO alliance.”

Lockheed Martin Aeronautics President Ralph D. Heath recognized the vision shared by the United States and Poland when the Peace Sky program began. “We have a new NATO beginning today,” he said. “Peace Sky is physical evidence of the vision both our nations shared to take Poland and NATO to a new level with this most capable, combat-proven, 21st century fighter.”

The F-16 for Poland includes enhanced capabilities, modern technologies and growth potential that will establish a foundation for the Poland Air Force in the 21st century. “We have been on or ahead of schedule in all key events,” said Lockheed Martin’s Shrewsbury. “We will take every measure to ensure the Poland Air Force achieves and maintains its highest levels of capability and readiness while flying the F-16.”

The Poland Peace Sky program includes 36 F-16Cs and 12 F-16Ds, all powered by the Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-229 engine. This first aircraft – a single-seat F-16C model – was accepted by the U.S. government (as agent for Poland in the Foreign Military Sales process) on March 30, one month ahead of schedule. The U.S. government accepted the first two-seat F-16D version in June. The first four aircraft will be ferried to Poland in November with the remainder following in 2007 and 2008.

BACKGROUND INFORMATION
The F-16 is the choice of 24 nations. More than 4,300 aircraft have been delivered worldwide from assembly lines in five countries. The F-16 program has been characterized by unprecedented international cooperation among governments, air forces and aerospace industries. Major upgrades to all F-16 versions are being incorporated to keep the fleet modern and fully supportable over the aircraft’s long service life.

[Willi Z.]

The F-35 just flew yesterday. It will be sold to 8 other nations as well at some point.

I understand the F-16s that Poland is getting are fresh off the assembly line.

The F-16 (F-18, F-14, F-15 as well) will still out perform most aircraft today. This is not a matter for subjective nationalism.

The first Gulf War pitted the best and latest Soviet aircraft (along with tactics, air defense, command and control) against the USAF. Sure the whole package matters, but we were expecting to loose at least 80 USAF aircraft that first night of the air campaign (1-15-91 if I remember correctly) and we lost zero. I was at HQ CENTAF that night in Riyadh so I still remember the apprehension we felt as we launched the first wave.

[bnz. 42]

The F-16 (F-18, F-14, F-15 as well) will still out perform most aircraft today. This is not a matter for subjective nationalism.
The first Gulf War pitted the best and latest Soviet aircraft

Both (American and Russian) are the world best aircrafts. A half of the world buys American aircrafts and another half buys Russian. So I think it is pretty naive to say that that American (or Russian) planes are superior to each other.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/79929/..._29_traininig/

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/261860/mig_29_vs_f_18/

From the Internet:
"Most of the modern generation of fighters are fairly similar in performance ..if almost any two modern fighters came up against each other in a dogfight, pilot skill would certainly be the main deciding factor."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...06/ai_n8865619

[DonC]

I think Poland will be very pleased with their F-16s.

Don

[oli4vercammen]

Belgium is trying to sell some F-16's for years now to eastern Europe countries, but our gouvernement isn't allowed from the US, becouse they have also a lot of F-16's they want to sell. I guess it was in the smallprint of the contract in 1977-78?