Did the sawback bayonet reprisals really happen like in the book "All Quiet On The Western Front,". Why would they happen?
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Originally posted by totenkopf059
I believe that they did by reading some of the propaganda directed at Germany over the issue.
I don't know why they would happen considering they were issued to pioneers who would use it to cut wood, wire pikes and carry our their duties. Sticking their bayonet in allied soldiers was not their primary job anyway.
I think anything that could be turned against Germany was. If you look at modern bayonets like the US Army's M9 they have saw backs too. No one whines and cry's about it today. -
What did they say that the Germans did with the bayonets?Comment
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Originally posted by totenkopf059
The Allies said that Germany fielded saw backs to create a more painful wound. Untrue of course. Although it may well have been more painful, I don't know. But pain was not the reason for the saw back. Utility was.Comment
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Did any of the captured Germans with these bayonets ever get any mercy?Comment
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The reprisals did indeed happen, that is why the German High Command issued an order for all saw-back bayonets to be taken out of service. It is true that they were only used to saw down barbed wire posts and the like, but the Allied propaganda was very effective. I believe the claim was that the sawbacks created a wound that wouldn't heal, and only a "barbarian/hun" would do such an evil thing.
If you are a collector of German WWI bayonets, you will often see them with the description "saw-back removed" - the Germans, well-known not to waste much, would take the sawback bayonets and grind the sawbacks off. Therefore, the majority of them no longer exist unless they were captured before the order was issued to take them out of service. Therefore, today they fetch a pretty penny.
Were any soldiers carrying these "spared" - I imagine. The war involved millions of troops, and I doubt anything was ever absolute. I also imagine that word got out to the German troops that carried them, before the order was issued, and I bet a fair number ditched the sawbacks when they anticipated being captured.Comment
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I never really thought of them as rare myself but then again I have only ever seen 2 of them. How much do they go for nowadays?Comment
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I am not a serious collector, but what I have seen lately shows that depending upon maker and condition, regular butcher bayonets sell for $100-$200 for average condition, while comparable sawbacks range from $250-$400. Exceptional examples and rarer makers will drive up the prices.Comment
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Why would they lie about these bayonets. That amounts to murder!!!Comment
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Lie? It was propaganda - it stirred up hatred of the enemy. The Allies were paying a dear price on all fronts and their losses were staggering and propaganda was just a diversion to obscure what was really happening. I doubt they cared that a few enemy soldiers were getting "murdered".Comment
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Just curious since I picked one up off e-bay a few years ago for less than $100 US. 1916 dated and made by C.G. Haenel Suhl. I know very little about WWI German stuff. Just wanted a representative example at the time to counter my US WWI cutlery.Originally posted by FritzHoffmannComment
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I try not to use ebay as a measure, sometimes good stuff sells cheap, apparently unnoticed, while cheap stuff sells high for unknown reasons. Look around at some militaria sites, and you'll get the higher end of the going rates, but those are usually more consistant.Comment
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There is an interesting story i read years ago from a Canadian soldiers book on the great war, published in 1919. In it he and and another NCO prevent a few French soldiers from executing 2 captured Germans who were caught with sawbacks on their possesion.
They were not murdered as the man through hand gestures and a lot of animation i am sure,convinced them to just let these men pass down the line.
It seems that the Canadian had travelled through Europe prewar
after finishing school in England.He had made friends with a young German on the trip who was soon to be in the army.When the man went to visit his friend in Germany,he was in a pioneer rgt.What had stuck in the Canadians mind was the German sawback bayonet,and the subsequent explanation of its usage.
A chance encounter,but fortuitous..and what made it even stranger(as well as hypocritical) was that he states that while the soldiers would be incensed by the sawbacks,they saw no problem in knuckle dusters,dum dum bullets,trench maces and their own sawback bayonets!
Apparantly,some of the Canadians who he served with carried such items.He carries a Ross rifle,and i have never seen a Ross sawback bayonet,though he states they had them..a rarity to be sure if found..Comment
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Werent dum dum bullets the ones that had the brass fluted so it could be used as a so called non lethal weapon? What were trench maces and knuckle dusters?Comment
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No, Dum Dum bullets actually increased, like a hollow point bullet causing more damage.Originally posted by totenkopf059 View Post
Trench Maces were http://images.google.com/images?q=tb...HeadDetail.JPG
and Knuckle Dusters are Brass Knuckles http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...s_knuckles.jpg
Knuckle Knifes http://www.editing.org.uk/tanis/trenchknife.jpg
Sawback Bayonets http://i10.ebayimg.com/05/i/08/31/49/de_3.JPG
Lots of Nasty weapons during WWI, lotsComment
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