Nuremburg trials

[Andy Harris]

It looks like the censor modified the spelling of the name of the first Japanese general I mentioned. It should be Yama Shi Ta, the general who captured Singapore and was in the Phillipines when the US liberated them.

[VonLuck]

Ramon, not to be morbid but how about putting up a few of those pictures? As much as I'm an admirer of many Heer and even Waffen SS soldiers, I'd still like to see camp guards getting what was coming to them.
Of all the accused at these trials I think the least guilty would have been people like Jodl and Keitel which were military men and did what their nation ordered. Just like our military keeps killing innocent women and children in the middle east. We don't and shouldn't hate our fine (though misguided) military for this, but we should hate the knuckle-dragger we have for a president and his puppeteers.
There are many unconfortably common factors between 1930's Germany and our country right now. But that's another story...

I have a very good friend a jewish lady who was in az camp .Over the years my friend has given and still does from time to time many items from the camp that she picked up after the war.My friend stayed behind in the camp to help the allies after the war.One of the items that she gave me was a photo album that belonged to a member of a jewish revenge squad and there is a lot of pics of these men that got away(so they thought)getting their pay back.That might be where the #400 came from.However from the pics it looked like alot more than 400.

Enjoy your hobby
Dennis J

[Josh Beckett]

Kietel!!, what do you mean Kietel was just following orders. He is the one who signed the Nacht und Nebel decree. That got alot of people killed. Quit comparing our Generals to Kietel! We dont kill innocent people in Iraq! It might have happend but its not policy! Haditha wasnt a massacre it was an accident. Jodl was an honorable man. Keitel was a murderer. Goering was a murderer as well.

[VonLuck]

Hmm, funny how most of the massacres are called "accidents" by the people that perpetrate them. War is war and massacres occur, that's it.
If you thought I was comparing our generals to Keitel you need to go back to hooked on phonics. I merely making a statement on how we should place most of the blame on the heads of a corrupt ideology rather than calling our soldiers "baby murderers" like during the Vietnam War.
A topic too complex to put it on black and white like you probably want to do.

Kietel!!, what do you mean Kietel was just following orders. He is the one who signed the Nacht und Nebel decree. That got alot of people killed. Quit comparing our Generals to Kietel! We dont kill innocent people in Iraq! It might have happend but its not policy! Haditha wasnt a massacre it was an accident. Jodl was an honorable man. Keitel was a murderer. Goering was a murderer as well.

[Andy Harris]

Our servicemen in Iraq and Afghanistan are in no way like the Nazis, but the stress of war often makes people do things that are horrible. Some of the Germans and Japanese who were convicted of atrocities in WWII had done things that Americans, French or British repeated in Vietnam/Indochine, Britain's colonial wars, and the Middle East.
Especially in a war against guerillas, and in an urban environment when the soldier can't always distinguish non-combatant from insurgent, combined with the frustrations of fighting a campaign that shows no signs of immediate success, atrocities are all but inevitable.
In some ways, many of the German and Japanese war criminals were tried and punished due to the fact that they lost the war. If the Allies had lost, perhaps Generals like LeMay and LeClerc would have hung from a rope.
Were Keitel and Jodl deserving of their fates? Perhaps not, but like I previously wrote, there are a lot of others who are far more deserving of our sympathies.

[VonLuck]

Our servicemen in Iraq and Afghanistan are in no way like the Nazis, but the stress of war often makes people do things that are horrible. Some of the Germans and Japanese who were convicted of atrocities in WWII had done things that Americans, French or British repeated in Vietnam/Indochine, Britain's colonial wars, and the Middle East.
Especially in a war against guerillas, and in an urban environment when the soldier can't always distinguish non-combatant from insurgent, combined with the frustrations of fighting a campaign that shows no signs of immediate success, atrocities are all but inevitable.
In some ways, many of the German and Japanese war criminals were tried and punished due to the fact that they lost the war. If the Allies had lost, perhaps Generals like LeMay and LeClerc would have hung from a rope.
Were Keitel and Jodl deserving of their fates? Perhaps not, but like I previously wrote, there are a lot of others who are far more deserving of our sympathies.

Well put Andy. Prost!

[Andy Harris]

Danke. I suppose some of my open-mindedness on this issue is tainted with a bit of cynicism directed at those who think we Americans have an absolute edge on moral superiority over other countries.
When I was in the Marine Corps in Desert Shield/Storm, there was a lot of racist talk against Arabs, often instigated and encouraged by the officers and staff NCOs. I had previously spent time in the Middle East, and actually had a Palestinian girlfriend at the time. In addition, a Lance Corporal in my squad was a Shiite Lebanese (with the misfortune of having the first name of "Hussein"!) immigrant, so the continued racist slurs really pissed me off. Later, when my unit went into Kuwait, our platoon commander allowed two corporals to attach C-4 to a dead Iraqi and blow up the body just for fun. I think that if the constant de-humanization of the enemy hadn't occurred, my fellow Marines may not have acted so bad towards the corpse of a slain enemy. Our platoon commander, a boot 2nd Lieutenant fresh out of Annapolis, ended up losing his commission when the word got out.

[Josh Beckett]

My dad was in Desert Storm/Sheild. I wont ask him if stuff like this happened because he would just say no. He has a bunch of pictures of the airfeild they captured. He didnt bring any souviners back and there were plenty to bring back as I see in the pictures. Did you bring souviners back Andy? You are right you cant compare our guys to Nazis. Murder isnt policy. We should kill captured Al qaeda members, do you agree?

[Sal Williams]

My dad was in Desert Storm/Sheild. I wont ask him if stuff like this happened because he would just say no. He has a bunch of pictures of the airfeild they captured. He didnt bring any souviners back and there were plenty to bring back as I see in the pictures. Did you bring souviners back Andy? You are right you cant compare our guys to Nazis. Murder isnt policy. We should kill captured Al qaeda members, do you agree?

Shouldn't they have to be proven to have commited an offence punishable by death? Even nazi party members had to have commited a crime and been tried and convicted before any punishment was meted out.

[Andy Harris]

Totenkopf, I don't think incidents like what happened in my platoon were common, and when the Marine Corps found out about it, they dealt with it.
As far as souvenirs from the war goes, i brought back a few items, but gave most of it away to friends and relatives.
As far as the treatment of captured Al-Queda terrorists goes, they probably deserve the death penalty, but should get fair trials in courts.

[Josh Beckett]

We should put them on trial. Some of these insurgents dont need to be put to death. I have heard stories of some of the non-al qaeda insurgents protecting kidnapped people from the al qaeda. Just stories though, don't know if they're true. You said you were a Marine. What were the souvenir rules, I heard that if you were wounded by a sniper you could keep that snipers gun if it got captured. My dad told me this but he was is an Air Force man so he wouldnt know.

[Andy Harris]

Totenkopf, I don't know of anyone being wounded by Iraqi snipers in Desert Storm. I've never heard of the policy which dictates a soldier can keep the weapon that wounded him.
The Marine Corps was very strict about what we could and could not take back as souvenirs: no firearms, no edged weapons, and no optics (why, I don't know). A lot of us had firearms (many had Makarov pistols and AKs, and I had an RPG-7, an 82mm mortar and a Yugoslav RPK) which we were highly tempted to try to smuggle back, but ended up burying in the Saudi desert. A couple of guys in my company did try to mail their AKs back, but were caught and punished.
I heard Army policy was even stricter.

[Scott Powell]

from this pic, you can see where Keitels face smashed into the trap

[Josh Beckett]

That looked painful. Andy, did you ever see any Al kadesih sniper rifles? Is a RPK any good. I know what it is but is it any good. Who were you up agaist (which division).

[Josh Beckett]

By the way Andy, Thanks for your service.