Capital ship losses in WWII, a Historical context

[TMurray]

I often hear people discuss the loss of RMS Titanic, especially the appalling loss of some 1,517 lives as a result of that disaster in 1912. These same people are often incredulous when confronted with the following statistics from ships lost during WWII;

• HIJMS Yamato 2,475 lives
• KMS Bismarck 2,200 lives
• KMS Scharnhorst 1,932 lives lost
• RN Roma 1,354 lives
• USS Arizona 1,177 dead

These all pale into insignificance when compared to the losses of the German ship KDF Wilhelm Gustloff in 1945 when over 5,000 people died.

Sort of puts these disasters into perspective doesnt it?!!

[Theodor]

War ws hell, so many lives loist, so those great tragedies slipped in the whole context.

While the Titanic came unexpected, in peaceful period, it had attacte the attention of the world already evenbefore the accident, it was stuffed with famous people... Same thing happens with Titanc itself - the casualties among the big names were tragedy, the death of the poor immigrats was second page news.

And still calling Titanic "the bigest maritime tragedy" is a kind of habit, I think. The real biggest tragedy is Gustloff, isn't it?

[Simon O.]

You can add many more to that list. Ships are giant steel coffins.

Tirpitz - 972 lives lost. and she was at anchor in 13m of water just 100m from the shore.


How many sailors died on the battlewagons at Pearl Harbor?

[Theodor]

Also, I think there was one Chinese big river ship, which sank with more people than Titanic... But really do not remember the sroty... Which shows the pictur - I know Titanic well, but have heard just maybe once about the bigger tragedy - in China

[behblc]

HMS Hood HMS Barham HMS Courageous.

Hood , Barham , Courageous must go down as being amongest the most costly losses to the Royal Navy.
German Shipping lost in Baltic waters in 1945 , equally terrible.

I recall reading a year or two ago that HMS Ark Royal had been loacted in the Med in the approaches to Gibralter .
She is at a depth is far beyond that of divers but as I recall the BBC had plans to make a documentery about he part of which was to be a survey of the carrier.

So far no news of it .

[TMurray]

You can add many more to that list. Ships are giant steel coffins.

Tirpitz - 972 lives lost. and she was at anchor in 13m of water just 100m from the shore.


How many sailors died on the battlewagons at Pearl Harbor?

Here's a few more with major loss of life

• HIMJS Musashi 1,023
• HMS Hood 1,415
• HMS Barham 865
• HMS Royal Oak 833

The total loss at Pearl Harbor (military losses) was 2,403, most on USS Arizona (1,177 killed). More people were killed during 911 in 2001 than Pearl harbor.

[TMurray]

War ws hell, so many lives loist, so those great tragedies slipped in the whole context.

While the Titanic came unexpected, in peaceful period, it had attacte the attention of the world already evenbefore the accident, it was stuffed with famous people... Same thing happens with Titanc itself - the casualties among the big names were tragedy, the death of the poor immigrats was second page news.

And still calling Titanic "the bigest maritime tragedy" is a kind of habit, I think. The real biggest tragedy is Gustloff, isn't it?

You are correct Theodor, there are unsubstantiated claims of up to 10,000 lost in the sinking of the Wilhelm Gustloff, no-one will ever know, it was in excess of 5,000. 99.99% of people in the street would never have heard of this ship.

[TMurray]

Hood , Barham , Courageous must go down as being amongest the most costly losses to the Royal Navy.
German Shipping lost in Baltic waters in 1945 , equally terrible.

I recall reading a year or two ago that HMS Ark Royal had been loacted in the Med in the approaches to Gibralter .
She is at a depth is far beyond that of divers but as I recall the BBC had plans to make a documentery about he part of which was to be a survey of the carrier.

So far no news of it .

Here's an update on HMS Ark Royal;

Her exact location remained unknown until mid-December 2002, when the BBC announced that a film crew had located the wreck in 900 metres of water some 30 miles (48 km) off Gibraltar.

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2585887.stm

[coastie]

Go to this web site for a more complete listing of ships and the number of lives lost

http://www.shipwreckregistry.com/index6.htm

[behblc]

That's the one.

Thomas, yes that's the BBC link I got the information form , 4 years ago coming as yet I have heard nothing more ,
It would certainly be interesting to see what she is like .
Bicmarck and Hood , Ark Royal above all other RN ships sealed the fate of Bismarck- had she escaped that evening the Home Fleet would have had to break off and head for home and Bismarck would have made it to France.
Can you imagine Bismrack going through the Channel in 42 ??

[TMurray]

Thomas, yes that's the BBC link I got the information form , 4 years ago coming as yet I have heard nothing more ,
It would certainly be interesting to see what she is like .
Bicmarck and Hood , Ark Royal above all other RN ships sealed the fate of Bismarck- had she escaped that evening the Home Fleet would have had to break off and head for home and Bismarck would have made it to France.
Can you imagine Bismrack going through the Channel in 42 ??

Certainly wouldve added another dimension to the Channel Dash for sure! Interesting scenario, had she made land fall in France, do you think the Germans wouldve risked her dashing up the Channel with the others?

[Der Stahlhelm]

Gent's
This question maybe slightly off the mark, but is there any truth that a German aircaft carrier was constructed during the war? Later used to hall off loot back to the USSR by the Reds? Vessel sank on the way?
Thanks
Mike

[TMurray]

Gent's
This question maybe slightly off the mark, but is there any truth that a German aircaft carrier was constructed during the war? Later used to hall off loot back to the USSR by the Reds? Vessel sank on the way?
Thanks
Mike

Hi Mike, you are referring to KMS Graf Zeppelin ordered in 1935 and launched December 1938. She was about 90% complete (the Germans kept changing their minds, priorities etc) before being scuttled at Stettin in April 1945. The ship was to be armed with approx 20 Bf 109T fighters. and a complement of some 40 JU87's. The Russians raised her and her exact fate remains unknown, some claim she became a Soviet floating base designated 'PO-101', although I dont believe this has ever been confirmed. Others claim she was later sunk in a Soviet atomic test or as a static bombing target somewhere in the Baltic Sea.
Here's a useful link http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/28...fzeppelin.html

[Kozlov]

Difference is is that during a war people try to kill each other, thats kinda the point.

Then again, whats more tragic, a passenger liner sunk in freezing by an iceberg or a passenger liner torpedoed by a submarine ("Lusitania" anyone?).

Its all bad, all of it, people dying is not nice.

Here's a good link for you:

http://www.titanic-whitestarships.com/WSL-Uboat.htm

[Bobwirtz]

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