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    #1

    Restoration versus Refurbishing

    Guys,
    I am one who will always default to never mess with a historical item. However, if a helmet, for example, has already been messed with after the war, I have no problem stripping the postwar paint and the postwar parts and adding original period parts to bring the helmet back to what it would have looked like. But this means not creating a fictitious "identity" for the helmet - like making it an SS when there is zero evidence it was issues that way.
    I don't really like when the refurbished ones are made to fit a profile that likely had nothing to do with their wartime service.
    I know that purists will want nothing but a complete helmet that has not been touched at all since the war, but am looking for people's opinions on restored versus refurbished.
    Tags: None
    #2
    refurbishing

    It's all about the limit's of the refurbishing. If you take a german Helmet and only change the chinstrap why not, or only the leather liner if removable for exemple in French M 26 Adrian, but chhange a full liner in a german helmet, with other rivets etc , not for me.

    Comment

      #3
      that's not a topic for the John Burnett forum.

      Comment

        #4
        Also I should mention that if you do restore a helmet (with all original parts but ones that were not together during ww2), you should be clear with your fellow collectors and with any buyer that the helmet has all orig parts but was a contemporary assembly. Honestly is the main thing and not passing off for something it is not.

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          #5
          I always leave my helmets the way I find them, no cleaning, no leather preservatives or treatments, no replacement or addition of missing or damaged parts....nothing!!! I wish all collectors would do the same. As far as post war repaints go, why purchase them, save your money for proper untouched ones is the best way to go. Call it what you want,...... repair, refurbish, restore, recondition, rework,.... re this and re that one thing is sure it's not the REal thing, it's just as post war as the post war paint job, post war repro liner or chinstrap and eventually someone will try passing it off as the real McCoy. Isn't there enough fake crap, Franken put togethers and played around questionable stuff out there as it is without having to add to the pile?????

          Comment

            #6
            Originally posted by helmet guy View Post
            I always leave my helmets the way I find them, no cleaning, no leather preservatives or treatments, no replacement or addition of missing or damaged parts....nothing!!! I wish all collectors would do the same. As far as post war repaints go, why purchase them, save your money for proper untouched ones is the best way to go. Call it what you want,...... repair, refurbish, restore, recondition, rework,.... re this and re that one thing is sure it's not the REal thing, it's just as post war as the post war paint job, post war repro liner or chinstrap and eventually someone will try passing it off as the real McCoy. Isn't there enough fake crap, Franken put togethers and played around questionable stuff out there as it is without having to add to the pile?????
            Regarding postwar repaints, if the shell is legit (e.g. Original beyond a doubt) then why should a piece of history be lost? Stripping the paint and adding period parts brings it back to life so to speak. You and I both disagree with dodgy sellers and refurbished fantasy identities.
            As I said I do not mess with original items. So don't mistake what I am asking here.

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              #7
              [QUOTE=helmet guy;7136768]I always leave my helmets the way I find them, no cleaning, no leather preservatives or treatments, no replacement or addition of missing or damaged parts....nothing!!! I wish all collectors would do the same.


              Nice theory but if a helmet was cleaned in 1955(and vets used to regulary), and wasnt touched since, then its going to look untouched today.Especially if it was thrown in an attic or basement.

              Who knows if something is truly untouched.A lot of supposed combat wear
              can be attributed to post war play in the back yard. As for parts, how would you truly know if anything was replaced.Some may be obvious but even 20 years of neglect will cover someone fiddling .

              Comment

                #8
                Originally posted by Freiwillige1813 View Post
                Regarding postwar repaints, if the shell is legit (e.g. Original beyond a doubt) then why should a piece of history be lost? Stripping the paint and adding period parts brings it back to life so to speak. You and I both disagree with dodgy sellers and refurbished fantasy identities.
                As I said I do not mess with original items. So don't mistake what I am asking here.
                Not mistaking what you are asking at all, just my opinion that I believe it is important to state, in order not encourage this practise for borderline helmets that are better left alone. I have seen too many "been there" and 'salty" helmets that someone felt needed to be doctored and were ruined in the process. Helmets that need to have post war stripped and missing parts replaced are already a piece of history lost. I believe that you and maybe not all WAF members may agree, but many will.

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                  #9
                  [QUOTE=keifer kahn;7136984]
                  Originally posted by helmet guy View Post
                  I always leave my helmets the way I find them, no cleaning, no leather preservatives or treatments, no replacement or addition of missing or damaged parts....nothing!!! I wish all collectors would do the same.


                  Nice theory but if a helmet was cleaned in 1955(and vets used to regulary), and wasnt touched since, then its going to look untouched today.Especially if it was thrown in an attic or basement.

                  Who knows if something is truly untouched.A lot of supposed combat wear
                  can be attributed to post war play in the back yard. As for parts, how would you truly know if anything was replaced.Some may be obvious but even 20 years of neglect will cover someone fiddling .
                  Agree. If the cleaning was done lightly with no abrasives and did not dull the paint, damaged the decal(s) and remove any patina, but no length of time will ever hid a over scrubbed helmets. Changed or replaced missing components are harder to detect since they could have been done during or post war.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Deathshead View Post
                    that's not a topic for the John Burnett forum.
                    Agree 100% !

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by helmet guy View Post
                      Not mistaking what you are asking at all, just my opinion that I believe it is important to state, in order not encourage this practise for borderline helmets that are better left alone. I have seen too many "been there" and 'salty" helmets that someone felt needed to be doctored and were ruined in the process. Helmets that need to have post war stripped and missing parts replaced are already a piece of history lost. I believe that you and maybe not all WAF members may agree, but many will.
                      Again I am never saying that original items should be doctored to get a greater sale price. I don't think anything should be faked or amended to sell. That is dishonest and it is fabricating history, not preserving it. I despise fraud in this hobby. And anything I restore is for myself, not for sale.

                      So you think a helmet shell made in the Third Reich and worn in wartime loses all value if repainted after the war? I think this is a narrow view.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Freiwillige1813 View Post
                        Again I am never saying that original items should be doctored to get a greater sale price. I don't think anything should be faked or amended to sell. That is dishonest and it is fabricating history, not preserving it. I despise fraud in this hobby. And anything I restore is for myself, not for sale.

                        So you think a helmet shell made in the Third Reich and worn in wartime loses all value if repainted after the war? I think this is a narrow view.
                        If you think I have a narrow view, well your entitled to your opinion. It's maybe more of a question that I have a higher standard to what I allow into my collection then you do, simple as that. Even if you restore helmets for yourself, there is always the possibility that one day they will end up back on the collector market and you might not be the one selling them. You have no guarentee that who you sell them to will be as honest about them as you say you would be. I have been collecting TR items for 40+ years and have too many well meaning collectors let restored items go to someone else you misrepresented them in a later transaction.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Originally posted by helmet guy View Post
                          If you think I have a narrow view, well your entitled to your opinion. It's maybe more of a question that I have a higher standard to what I allow into my collection then you do, simple as that. Even if you restore helmets for yourself, there is always the possibility that one day they will end up back on the collector market and you might not be the one selling them. You have no guarentee that who you sell them to will be as honest about them as you say you would be. I have been collecting TR items for 40+ years and have too many well meaning collectors let restored items go to someone else you misrepresented them in a later transaction.
                          ^ A fair point. Seems like we agree on a lot of things but in this case we'll chalk it up to different approaches to collecting.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Freiwillige1813 View Post
                            ^ A fair point. Seems like we agree on a lot of things but in this case we'll chalk it up to different approaches to collecting.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              I just picked up this M40 Luft this weekend and have already had 3 different people tell me that I should restore / replace the decal. I have decided not to do so but wondering what others think. It has a beautiful liner and chin strap. BDM
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                              Last edited by bigdavemac; 10-26-2015, 05:38 PM.

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