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**Stu W** · 11-24-2009, 03:26 PM

Hello,

I'm a fan of Ren Wax and feel that it's safe to use on each of the parts you mention with one exception. Should the pommel of the 2nd Luft have the gilded swastika I'd keep it off the gilding itself. I have no evidence to suggest it would cause damage but as I've never tested it on gilding I just add that caution. I'd contact someone like Tom (swordfish) and ask his thoughts with regards to that point.

Regards,
Stu

**Wolf100** · 11-24-2009, 03:52 PM

Thanks Stu!!

**SwordFish** · 11-24-2009, 04:27 PM

I agree with Stu.

I've experimented with Ren a little more liberally than probably prudent..but have done so on lesser items.

The biggest failure of Renwax I've found was use on Imperial Japanese sake cups/bottles. Renwax contains some degree of petro based chemicals, and will strip hand painted Kanji/artistic characters off the artifact. I also avoid leathers, wood, and other porous materials which need to breath.

I use Ren on my blades, sabers, gilted saber hilts, etc. I would though excercise care with regards to gilted pommel caps on Luft pieces. The coloring is quite fragile and I wouldn't want to damage it with overzealous preservation technique. Ren will stathe off the zinc pest so commonly encountered on the hilts of PE sabers, and some tinnies/badges.

Just my feeling. Opinions vary drastically from collector to collector and cover the whole breadth of experiences . I'd always reccommend err on the side of caution...i've made my fair share mistakes, which were great learning tools. I can't speak highly enough of microcrystaline waxes..but like anytihing else, use needs to be tempered with good judgement.

Again, just my experience and 2 cents, even if worth less than a peso

Tommy Boy

**Stahlhelm** · 11-24-2009, 08:40 PM

I have only used Ren-Wax on blades. Even though I'm a conservation nut, I will not put it on any other part of an edged weapon. I personally have no evidence that it will damage any other parts. I have simply never, in all my years of keeping various daggers, seen any changes, corrosion, etc. develop elsewhere on my daggers. So, when possilbe, I use a minimalist's approach.

That's just my opinion.

Chris

**Paul R.** · 11-24-2009, 09:40 PM

As a conservator I am a fan of microcrystaline waxes. I use Ren Wax only on blades only. As you may already know many dagger parts were made of cheap composition metals with high amounts of tin, zinc, pot medal, aluminum. Unfortunately these metals are unstable over time and can cause zinc pest, or zinc powder. By applying Ren Wax to items as listed above you don't stop this zinc pest from happening. It is merely masked for awhile.
Also the most of these waxes have a small amount petroleumin the blend and has been known to darken trolon grips mostly white and yellow colors. Also some old laquers have been known to react in time to Ren Wax.
The biggest culprit are high levels of humidity, out gassing, dust, and finger prints. Also some old laquers and react to Ren Wax.
Remember keep humidity levels should be 43% - 45% 24/7, 365 day a year

**Stu W** · 11-24-2009, 10:47 PM

Originally posted by Paul R. View Post

As a conservator I am a fan of microcrystaline waxes. I use Ren Wax only on blades only. As you may already know many dagger parts were made of cheap composition metals with high amounts of tin, zinc, pot medal, aluminum. Unfortunately these metals are unstable over time and can cause zinc pest, or zinc powder. By applying Ren Wax to items as listed above you don't stop this zinc pest from happening. It is merely masked for awhile.
Also the most of these waxes have a small amount petroleumin the blend and has been known to darken trolon grips mostly white and yellow colors. Also some old laquers have been known to react in time to Ren Wax.
The biggest culprit are high levels of humidity, out gassing, dust, and finger prints. Also some old laquers and react to Ren Wax.
Remember keep humidity levels should be 43% - 45% 24/7, 365 day a year

Hello Paul,

I'm pleased that you saw this thread and commented as you have. Most times I'm in 100% agreement with you but on this one only 90%.

You make the point that...

"By applying Ren Wax to items as listed above you don't stop this zinc pest from happening."

It's my understanding that it will both prevent it, and stop it if already established, if the wax coating is properly applied because the various zinc pest like actions all require oxygen to take place. If the item is sealed properly the chemical reaction is denied that one essential element. Have you come across any research addressing that point? Several of us here have done experiments with zinc badges beset with the pest and once cleaned and sealed they remained free from further deterioration. As you are no doubt aware the edged weapon fraternity have been using Ren Wax for years and many coat their entire edged weapons with it. In addition I'm aware that some collectors are coating their zinc badges with it as a preventative measure. It would be nice to learn more about these waxes if there is more to learn. Even the aspect of using it on wood and leather seems to be unsettled. The manufacturer claims it's fine to use on both yet I hear that these natural items need to breath so they should not be coated. I'd ask then if the back sides of grips and insides of frogs were left uncoated would that be enough breathing surface if in fact there really is a need for an inanimate object to breath.

Let me know what/if any studies are out there if you can as this is a topic I'd like to research further.

Also, would you be inclined to recommend any other microcrystaline waxes that may have been developed more recently? Possibly some without petroleum components.

Kind regards,
Stu

**ring** · 01-16-2010, 04:41 PM

I am also big fan and user of RenWax...

...I would like to know what do you guys think if it should be applied on this scabbard:

**Steve P** · 01-17-2010, 02:58 AM

Originally posted by Wolf100 View Post

Dear collectors. i have a nice looking Eickhorn 2nd luftdagger and a very nice Alcoso high lift army dagger. Both are in a wooden casket with glas front and out of their scabbards. I thought about using renwax to protect the blades. But why not use it on the crossguard, the pommel, the scabbard and why not even on the metal parts of the hangers?

Is there anything, that says no, to use it on these parts?

Thanks for your input!!!

In short, NO...no reason not to use it on any metal parts reqiring preservationa nd protection IMO!

**Steve P** · 01-17-2010, 02:59 AM

Originally posted by ring View Post

I am also big fan and user of RenWax...

...I would like to know what do you guys think if it should be applied on this scabbard:

I think this would be just fine IMO mate!

**WEISNER** · 01-17-2010, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by Stu W View Post

Hello,

I'm a fan of Ren Wax and feel that it's safe to use on each of the parts you mention with one exception. Should the pommel of the 2nd Luft have the gilded swastika I'd keep it off the gilding itself. I have no evidence to suggest it would cause damage but as I've never tested it on gilding I just add that caution. I'd contact someone like Tom (swordfish) and ask his thoughts with regards to that point.

Regards,
Stu

I display My daggers in much the same type case You describe, Stu W went out of His way a year or two back with a great Ren Wax Teutorial I followed and My daggers are holding up great using this wax!
No worries!
Kevin

**WEISNER** · 01-17-2010, 08:10 PM

One other thought! I have a Luft GAB that was in the very early first stage of zinc pest in the wreath, small white powder residue in the recesses. I applied an even very light ren wax coating to it over a year ago and no further pest problem as of today, I never re treated it and it looks great!
I am a beleiver and also take this oppertunity thank Stu for sending me a sample of the wax!
One other thing I have done is pin Silica gel packets on the display case shelf underside, I beleive this helps soak up any moisture that gets into the case.
Most any shoe store will give You a handful of packets as the shoes always have packets in thier box.
Best Regards!
Kev

**Stahlhelm** · 01-29-2010, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by WEISNER View Post

One other thing I have done is pin Silica gel packets on the display case shelf underside, I beleive this helps soak up any moisture that gets into the case.
Most any shoe store will give You a handful of packets as the shoes always have packets in thier box.
Best Regards!
Kev

Just remember to dry the silica beads out regularly, in order to keep them activated and capable of absorbing further moisture. Otherwise, they are useless after a point. They can be reactivated by putting them in an oven for a period of time. However, of course, I'm not saying to put the packaged beads found in shoe boxes in the oven. You'd, of course, have a fire on your hands soon enough. I supppose that a microwave would be workable for heating/reactivating the packaged beads.

I use loose silica beads which turn pinkish white when they have absorbed their maximum amount of moisture. The beads I use turn blue when they are dried out and ready to absorb moisture again. I do not use the type found in shoe boxes, in packages, making the bead color unknowable. The loose beads are inexpensive and can be purchased in most any hobby or craft shop, as they are used by florists to dry flowers. The directions on the can I have, say, for example, to heat the beads at 250 degrees in an oven, until they again turn blue.

That's just a few of my ideas about effectively using silica beads. Just rememeber that once they've reached their limit of absorption, they absorb no more until reactivated (or redried).

Chris

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