Zincpest crystalization, opinions please

[Stahlhelm]

What kind of fleece? Polarfleece is polyester. It repels water/moisture, especially when it's new, unwashed.

Yes, the Polarfleece is fine. That's what I use. I currently have muslin in my display cases, and I use the fleece to wrap items for storage, although you can use them interchangably, of course. The moisture-repelling feature of the fleece just makes it more attractive to me for wrapping items for storage.

Chris

[Robert P.]

Yes, the Polarfleece is fine. That's what I use. I currently have muslin in my display cases, and I use the fleece to wrap items for storage, although you can use them interchangably, of course. The moisture-repelling feature of the fleece just makes it more attractive to me for wrapping items for storage.

Chris

Ok, thank you, Chris.

[Stahlhelm]

Ok, thank you, Chris.

You are most welcome, Robert. I'm glad I could help.

Chris

[Robert P.]

Chris,

You see in this photo the only effected area is at 2:00. No pest to the obverse, or any other area of the reverse. Why do you suppose this is? I'm thinking it's caused by some 'impefection' in the metalurgy of the badge in this area. I see other badges that are plagued with the pest over the entire obverse or reverse of the badge. Why is mine effected in just one small area? Please, your opinion.

[Stahlhelm]

Robert:

My opinion is, honestly, the same as yours on this one; Believe me, I do think about such things long and hard myself with my own collection. I have also considered the same such question myself, many times before.

I agree that the pest on your badge is likely due to "imperfections" in the metal content, within that specific effected area. It does only make good sense that, in the mixing process of the metals, things could be worse in pinpoint areas like this. I have personally seen too many examples where the pest occurs in just such a random, and otherwise unexplainable pattern or location. Current information on the subject of zinc pest states that it is at least (in addition to humidity) also likely caused by lead impurities in the zinc. Apparently, during the time, they didn't always filter the metal properly due to carelessness, apathy, faster speed of producion, technological deficits, or multiples of such reasons.

So, ultimately I am either as baffled as you are, or as content to believe what makes most sense to explain it. I hope that helps, and, as usual, I'm glad that I can help.

Chris

[Robert P.]

Once again, thank you, Chris. Well, I'll just have to do my part in keeping the atmosphere at the right humidity level/range, and see what it looks like down the road. It's a very scarce badge, so I'll do my best to preserve it.

[PODO01]

Hi Robert,

Im Still A Firm Believer In Neutralizing It With Vaseline For A Couple Of Days. I Then Remove The Area With A Non Abrasive Silver Cleaner And Finish It Off With Snake Oil. For Me This Always Has Worked And Then Storing Them In A Humidity Controlled Environment.

Regards,
Tom

[Robert P.]

Hi Robert,

Im Still A Firm Believer In Neutralizing It With Vaseline For A Couple Of Days. I Then Remove The Area With A Non Abrasive Silver Cleaner And Finish It Off With Snake Oil. For Me This Always Has Worked And Then Storing Them In A Humidity Controlled Environment.

Regards,
Tom

Thanks Tom,

What is 'snake oil', and what does it do over Ren wax to protect?

[PODO01]

Hi Robert,

Snake Oil Is A Liquid Preservative That A Lot Of Gun Dealers use To Prevent Rust. A Big Gun Dealer In Texas Recommended It And I Ran With It. The Plus About It Is, Its Not Water Based And Has No Harsh Chemicals. When Its Actually Left To Dry It Gives It A Nice Seal From Moisture. Its Always Worked For Me And I Swear By It. Those That Know The Pieces In My Collection Or That Came From My Collection Know The Quality Which I Collect. The Vaseline Use I Learned On The Forum And Tried A Long Time Ago When I Just About Collected Anything- Even The Zink Pest Worn Pieces. I Was Astonished How Well Vaseline Worked. I Hope This Helps.

Tom

[Robert P.]

Hi Robert,

Snake Oil Is A Liquid Preservative That A Lot Of Gun Dealers use To Prevent Rust. A Big Gun Dealer In Texas Recommended It And I Ran With It. The Plus About It Is, Its Not Water Based And Has No Harsh Chemicals. When Its Actually Left To Dry It Gives It A Nice Seal From Moisture. Its Always Worked For Me And I Swear By It. Those That Know The Pieces In My Collection Or That Came From My Collection Know The Quality Which I Collect. The Vaseline Use I Learned On The Forum And Tried A Long Time Ago When I Just About Collected Anything- Even The Zink Pest Worn Pieces. I Was Astonished How Well Vaseline Worked. I Hope This Helps.

Tom

Thanks Tom,

And, remember, I've bought many pieces from you in the past, and really couldn't tell they had been treated with anything. Snake oil sounds pretty good. Please let me know where I can get this oil.

Tom, would you try and remove these crystalized 'flowers' first before treating with Vaseline, or just leave them as they are?

[Nordmark]

Hi Robert,


I always wash my badges with a mild soap and tap water. Then I dry them and put them in distilled water to neutralize the sodium and other salts that are in the tap water. After drying it I apply a thin layer of vaseline with a soft brush.

Vaseline and ren wax are the best way to stop the crystallization or any sort of zinc pest in my opinion, so I don´t really think you will find any more damage in the future.

Regards,


Daniel

[Robert P.]

Hi Robert,


I always wash my badges with a mild soap and tap water. Then I dry them and put them in distilled water to neutralize the sodium and other salts that are in the tap water. After drying it I apply a thin layer of vaseline with a soft brush.

Vaseline and ren wax are the best way to stop the crystallization or any sort of zinc pest in my opinion, so I don´t really think you will find any more damage in the future.

Regards,


Daniel

Well, that's reassuring.

[Stahlhelm]

Well, that's reassuring.

Robert:

I'll gladly add to the reassurance here. I also personally believe, from my own experience over time, that the humidity is a huge ingredient necessary for the continuation of the pest, with or without the possible metal impurities. I have yet to see any further development of zinc pest on any piece which I have, after receiving, kept in a humidity-controlled environment, with or without the help of Ren-Wax, vaseline, or anything else. Since the products mentioned above help to keep out the moisture, it makes sense that they could also help. In other words, controlling the humidity level around your zinc pieces, is, however you do it, a huge step towards arresting its progress.

Again, this is all based on my own personal experience not seeing any further development of the pest under such optimal, low-humidity conditions. I know some do not agree with this, and instead believe that the pest will reduce its victims to dust soon enough, no matter what. However, until I see otherwise in my own collection, I refuse to give up hope on this. Besides, there is otherwise no other hopeful alternative. So, I will continue to be very lonely believing that, if necessary, as long as it works for me. Hopefully, it will work for you too.

Good luck,

Chris

[Paul R.]

I see again that the zinc pest topic has brought great debate. I agree with Chris‘s statement on the impurities in the medal. As a conservator I have being saying this all the while. Zinc pest is a form of inter crystalline corrosion. This corrosion process of the zinc is greatly accelerated by the presence of moisture in warm air. Humidity of 50% or greater has been shown to accelerate the process of zinc pest that is why I have been recommending the use of a dehumidifier.
It is believed during WWII most alloys did not meeting strict purity standards of today. Rather a quick hasty means of production. It is believed that even the impurities in the water could be blamed for helping to create an atmosphere of zinc impurities. Thus results in a very micro cracking along the grain of the zinc alloy. That why it is not recommended to wash any medals that contain zinc.
It is virtually impossible to say with any certainty that all World War II medals will suffer zinc pest. I have seeing some pre-war zinc made items that do not show any signs of zinc pest. Some items were cracked by mostly due in part to very cold temperatures, and poor storage and handling practices. <O</O
Zinc can be alloyed with aluminum, magnesium, copper, lead, and cadmium. Usually at levels of less than 1%-3%, this is due to these metals' extremely low solubility. During WWII larger concentrations of low grade iron, lead, cadmium and tin could have had a greater adverse effect on corrosion which results in structural weakening of the die casted metal. <O</O
Greasing, oiling zinc is not going to prevent, or stop any corrosion from happening. It all goes back to the manufacturing processing that can’t be wished away or clean away.

[Robert P.]

All very good points, and all good information. Thank you, all, for your efforts in sharing with me. I believe the coatings we put on these badges, whether oil or wax, are useless (and even fatal) if we don't completely heat away all moisture from the badge before applying. Trapping the moisture within nullifies all of our efforts to dehumidify the environment, completely. I actually agree with you, Paul, if we keep the atmosphere our badges are kept in at a controlled humidity, this is the very best we can do. And, we're assuming the badges we buy have never been treated with anything before. We'll never know for sure. But, we can treat them as if they hadn't.