Nice EK2 with oxidation

[1corps]

Hello! I have a real nice EK2 that now has developed what seems to be some white oxidation on the ring and cross itself. Probably related to humidity. Is it OK to remove and how should I attempt it? I am afraid of rubbing off the silver finish on it. Thanks, Mike.

[Stahlhelm]

I'm curious about the period of time over which this oxidation has developed. Did it begin and/or progress within the time which you have owned it? If that's the case, of course, it suggests that your particular environmental humidity is the cause. You could at least then know what you need to control to stop any further development of the corrosion.

As for removing the corrosion, I cannot be sure it's best to do that. The possible consequences could be worse than what you currently have. The problem is that, depending on exactly what this white corrosion is, and exactly where it is, the surface of the metal beneath may not be any more satisfying to look at. So, when you say that this oxidation is also on the cross, what part of the cross are you talking about? Is it on the painted core of the cross, or is it on the rim or frame?

It would actually be best, if possible, for you to first post photos of the cross, so that we can make a better judgement. In general, I will stress that the results of cleaning things are rarely satisfying and often just make things worse. For example, in the case of cleaning a light coating of zinc pest off of an item which has lost it's silver colored layer above, one can suddenly be surprised by the appearance of the far darker, and aesthetically less pleasing metal beneath. Of course, I know we're not dealing with zinc here, but it still exemplifies my point. My point is that sometimes the metal beneath can look worse than the corrosion above. Another important thing to consider is that a cleaned item may forever have that obviously and often undesirable cleaned look. I have personally never been satisfied with any piece of militaria that I've ever cleaned in my beginning time as a collector. To this day, I still regret cleaning anything I've ever cleaned, without exception.

Again, without knowing what the white stuff is and exactly where it is, along with what it looks like exactly on the metal, it's a little hard to give you the best, most accurate advice. Although there are various effective ways of cleaning such corrosion off, I'd personally prefer to wait for more specific information about it. Hopefully, others will also chime in here with suggestions.

I hope the above helps at least in giving you a few extra things to consider.

Good luck!

Chris

[Military]

I follow Stahlhelm's posts.

1. Post photos of your EK so we can make a better judgement of what could / should or need not be done.

2. All in all, avoid cleaning where possible. Once you do that, you cant "undo" like MS windows! what I would suggest is to reduce the spread or the acceleration of the oxidation process by keeping humidity in check for this particular piece. we all learn and the next few purchases, do monitor humidity and keep your treasures safe.

have a good weekend!

[1corps]

Hello guys!! Thanks for your input. The white oxidation definitley happened in my care. I have it downstairs with my uniforms and helmets and was horrified when I took it out of the case to examine it. I have a de-humidifier on at all times and damp rid but never thought much about anything happening. It was really nice when I first got it. I am afraid to clean because as was said the surface underneath could be worse but I believe it is definitely surface oxidation and to remove asap I would think is best. There is also some discloration on the cross edges also. Do not think that was there either when I got it. I hope the attached photos better show my concern. Thanks, Mike.

[1corps]

close up of the ring that the ribbon is attached. That seems to be the worst area.

[1corps]

#3

[Stahlhelm]

I must admit that I'm personally stumped with this one. I'm just unable to figure out what the white stuff could be on the frame of an EK1. The only white metal corrosions I can think of are zinc pest on zinc and zinc alloys and oxidation on aluminum. I've also never seen such a type of white corrosion on the fram of an EK1. Usually, the frame turns a darker color like tarnish on silver. I realize that it's difficult to photograph these things, especially at such close range and magnification, but I'm still having a time trying to get a clear image of it from your photos. However, with what I do see, I am not familiar with it. The confusing thing is that there are, of course, only so many kinds of corrsions that affect various metals. Furthermore, the different corrosions are, of course, metal specific.

I do have a few other questions to help us think about what it may be. What does this white stuff look like exactly, since the photos aren't clear enough to show necessary detail. Does it appear powdery or solid? Does it look like something that would be easy to clean off or does it look like something that would be more difficult? Zinc pest is a white powder that's very easy to remove, leaving a disturbing darker area beneath. Verdigris can sometimes be much more difficult to remove, also leaving the undesirable dark base metal showing, when removed.

I would suggest also waiting until Paul R. takes a look at this thread. He may have another idea about what it is and what's best to do. Until then, hopefully others will chime in here with a bit of their own similiar experiences.

If is powdery, and if you chose to remove it, I would first use something that first softens it up. I certainly wouldn't do any scraping. I would also first test your method on a very small area to test the result. The above are all obvious, common-sense approaches, of course.

For now, that's about all I can say about it, and I hope that I've at least been a bit helpful in helping you consider everything.

Chris

[1corps]

I must admit that I'm personally stumped with this one. I'm just unable to figure out what the white stuff could be on the frame of an EK1. The only white metal corrosions I can think of are zinc pest on zinc and zinc alloys and oxidation on aluminum. I've also never seen such a type of white corrosion on the fram of an EK1. Usually, the frame turns a darker color like tarnish on silver. I realize that it's difficult to photograph these things, especially at such close range and magnification, but I'm still having a time trying to get a clear image of it from your photos. However, with what I do see, I am not familiar with it. The confusing thing is that there are, of course, only so many kinds of corrsions that affect various metals. Furthermore, the different corrosions are, of course, metal specific.

I do have a few other questions to help us think about what it may be. What does this white stuff look like exactly, since the photos aren't clear enough to show necessary detail. Does it appear powdery or solid? Does it look like something that would be easy to clean off or does it look like something that would be more difficult? Zinc pest is a white powder that's very easy to remove, leaving a disturbing darker area beneath. Verdigris can sometimes be much more difficult to remove, also leaving the undesirable dark base metal showing, when removed.

I would suggest also waiting until Paul R. takes a look at this thread. He may have another idea about what it is and what's best to do. Until then, hopefully others will chime in here with a bit of their own similiar experiences.

If is powdery, and if you chose to remove it, I would first use something that first softens it up. I certainly wouldn't do any scraping. I would also first test your method on a very small area to test the result. The above are all obvious, common-sense approaches, of course.

For now, that's about all I can say about it, and I hope that I've at least been a bit helpful in helping you consider everything.

Chris

Chris, I really want to thank for trying to assist me. It does look like a powdery type substance. I was surprised also because I expected to see tarnishing myself since the humidity has been very high lately and the de-humidifier has been running a lot. I will try to gently remove and see what happens. Again, thank you for your assistance. Mike.

[1corps]

Well, I gently tried to remove the white substance but found that it will not wipe away. Under a jewelers loop it almost looks like the silver plating is coming off leaving the base metal underneath. Is that possible? I never tried to clean this or do anything but put it in my display case. Really do not understand what happened to this one! Do you think someone could have polished it prior to selling to me and the polishing is wearing off? Mike.

[Stahlhelm]

It also seems confusing that such problems would have developed from humidity, when you do have dehumidifier running all the time. Do you also monitor the humidity levels with a hygrometer? If you've done that and kept the humidity within acceptable limits, then I'm even more confused.

I suppose that the ideas you have are about as good as anything I can come up with right now also. It's very safe to say that it isn't zinc pest, since that usually wipes off easily enough, although it can about as easily return. If I think of anything else, I'll let you know.

Chris

[1corps]

It also seems confusing that such problems would have developed from humidity, when you do have dehumidifier running all the time. Do you also monitor the humidity levels with a hygrometer? If you've done that and kept the humidity within acceptable limits, then I'm even more confused.

I suppose that the ideas you have are about as good as anything I can come up with right now also. It's very safe to say that it isn't zinc pest, since that usually wipes off easily enough, although it can about as easily return. If I think of anything else, I'll let you know.

Chris

Chris, I unfortunately I do not have a hygrometer. I appreciate all your input in trying to help me out. It is very confusing. I had never seen this before and the more I look the more I think it could be something done before I owned it to make it look better for sale. Thanks again, Mike.

[Stahlhelm]

Chris, I unfortunately I do not have a hygrometer. I appreciate all your input in trying to help me out. It is very confusing. I had never seen this before and the more I look the more I think it could be something done before I owned it to make it look better for sale. Thanks again, Mike.

That sounds like a very good possibility to me too, Mike. I've certainly seen things like that done before. I especially agree, since the substance doesn't sound like any type of corrosion it would logically be. At least if that's the case, you would know that your storage environment in general is not the cause. Then, it would at least be limited to the one piece, as bad as that may be perse.

Chris

[Adrian]

At the risk of stating the obvious, are you competely sure that it isn't the white frosting on the cross that you're trying to remove? The EK is a Wachtler and Lange which often hold their finish a lot better than some other makers. The chemically applied frosting can be found not only on the beading but also on the edges of the cross, the small hump at the top and also on the suspension and ribbon rings.
I've attached a quick pic of a W&L which didn't come out the best but the areas on it which aren't shiny are the areas that still have frosting applied.
Note how the ribbon ring is actually white.

[1corps]

Adrian, WOW!! The photo you submitted is exactly what it looks like on mine! I cannot believe I actually considered removing the original white frosting!! Thanks so much for your input!! You saved me what could have been a monumentous mistake!! Your friend always, Mike.

[Adrian]

Phew!!!!
No worries Mike, glad to help!