Pre-lim cleaner

[belinda]

hi,
Has anyone used Pre-lim cleaner that is made by the renaissance wax polish makers?
I am thinking of getting some, but i want to know if it is safe to use on all militaria items and if it removes all patinia aswell as dirt.

regards,
belinda

[bobcam1]

Belinda,
I'd be curious to know if anyone's used that, as well.....

I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I'm also curious about Vulpex. I know people who do feather work, and they use it to clean feathers, so I assume it's quite gentle. I know that museums use it to clean old oil paintings as well, so that adds to it's pluses.
Has anyone used it on medals or ribbons? (A bit about it, here: http://www.picreator.co.uk/articles/...iquid_soap.htm)

I'd also like a bit of info about Sudsy Ammonia, which I frequently see mentioned as an excellent cleaner.

Thanks,
Bob.

[Paul R.]

As a conservator. I need to inform people just because a company produces one or two great products. That doesn't mean there entire product line is 100% safe. Pre lim cleaner has been known to remove pitina, and some silver wash on metals. Several times such chemicals have a delayed effect on items. I also have seen it work excellent one item and almost completely distroy another one.
As far as vuplex soap it's good on most things, but again not for everything. Another soap that we use with good results is called Orvis an nice neutral PH level. Again not for everything. REMEMBER most old fabrics dyes are not 100% stable. Can fade very easily, bleed or shift colors in modern floride waters.
Never ever use sudsy ammonia on anything. It is very unstable after it is applied to a surface and can soften most coatings on medals, cause corrosion on some metals. It also will leave a residue behind on the surface. As far as cleaning feathers NEVER wash feathers you will strip away the natural oils in them causing to dry out. Feathers need to be touched by clean human hands. Frethers need the light oily touch. It okay to do. Clean feathers in brushed on powdered Borax, or very fine silica beads only. Then hand stroke the feather several times.
REMEMBER IF IT SOUND TO GOOD, OR EASY IT USUALLY NOT, OR SAFE TO USE.

[belinda]

many thanks once again Paul for your help. Do you think that it would be ok to use pre-lim on just to clean up dagger blades and then use the renaissance wax polish to coat them afterwards?

regards,
belinda

[bobcam1]

many thanks once again Paul for your help. Do you think that it would be ok to use pre-lim on just to clean up dagger blades and then use the renaissance wax polish to coat them afterwards?

regards,
belinda

I spoke to a person in the conservation department at the Museum of Natural History, in NYC today. He indicated that they have yet to find a material that they would avoid using Vulpex on. he also agreed with Paul's assessment of feather cleaning although he said that they have used Vulpex on badly soiled feathers, by diluting it with mineral spirits, rather than water.....

Bob.

[Paul R.]

Museums conservators as a rule tend no to wash or rinse artifacts. unless it is bloody, chemical stained (a recent with in 2 days). Usually if an item is very greasy. It is wiped down with various cotton cloths, or in extreme cases of a non greasy items a damp cloth may be used. Then completely allowed to air dry. Ren wax is only applied to displayed items, or unless the item is unstable. Then Ren Wax may be used or another treatment maybe used. Remember Ren wax is a sealant. It will not allow an item to breath. Most conservators will not use it on oil paintings, paper items, leather, photographs, wood (unles wood will be displayed with out a plexiglass cover). It is safe to use on all types blades except bone. Paul

[Stu W]

My observations.

Hi Guys and Gals,

I've periodically used Pre-Lim to clean up combat bayo blades, fittings and scabbards prior to a Ren Wax coating. In that application it worked well for me and with no visible negative effects in the two years I've been doing so.

I've used Pre-Lim once to clean up an early M33 SA blade and fittings that had a dull grey look to them. On that single occasion it brought the blade up modestly and cleaned the fittings with minimal patina loss. If you try it I suggest that you make sure you polish across the blade, in the direction of the cross-grain, not lengthways. Keep away from the etching. Gentle wiping with a clean, dry, soft, cotton cloth worked best for me.

I've used the Sudsy Ammonia (must be Sudsy I've been told) bath once to clean an early M33 SA blade. It brought the blade up substantially. I should stress that I used a 10-1 mix of water to Sudsy Ammonia. This method is subject of many comments on GDC and it might prove useful for folks to spend some time there reading them over. I would not use it on a blade where the plating was lifting. A thorough drying is a must afterwards.

I used the two methods on SA that were hurting and there was nothing left to lose. I do not suggest that anyone reading this make it a practise. I'm just providing info on what I did in very limited sets of circumstances. If your edged weapons are not either combat or in the "nothing left to lose" stage then I'd be inclined to leave them alone. My success may also have been due to the type of material that was cleaned off. Notably grease and dirt. Other contaminants may not react the same way.

I have no experience in the use of either method to clean anything other than those items mentioned above and agree with Paul that just because a product works well on one item it won't be sure to work well on another. For me these were experiments although I've continued on with the Pre-Lim where it applies to combat bayos.

I'm hoping to add information to a knowledge base with this post so that over time members can begin to see a pattern of what works and what does not. It's not my intention to engage in, nor fuel, the wider debate over cleaning vs. not cleaning of militaria. I hope you see it that way.

Regards to all,
Stu

[belinda]

Thanks stu for your personal opinions on pre-lim, very much appreciated.

regards,
belinda

[Paul R.]

Thanks Stu W.