All Gassed Out...

[Stahlhelm]

I'm just wondering if there's ever a point where out-gassing materials eventually become, quite literally, gassed out?

I fully expect the answer to be no, of course. However, it somehow doesn't make sense that materials that emit gases over time have the "fuel", as it is, to emit gasses forever. For example, it would seem that a case for an Iron Cross would eventually become unable to produce anymore gas, and therefore be safe for storing it's EK1 inside it, where it was intended to be anyway. Nearly seventy years of gassing to me seems excessive, to say the least.

This idea is supported, for example, by what I have heard from a number of very intelligent, experienced collectors of cased EK1's. I have been told by many that they have kept their EK1's in their original cases for decades now, without any noticeable or visible ill effects. This is apparently a fact which contradicts what I would otherwise believe about gassing and its ill-effects on EK1's.

So, even if gas producing materials somehow continue to produce gas (simply by decomposing) as long as they exist, do they at least at some point produce amounts of gas which are so minimal as to be effectively harmless? The above-mentioned accounts seem to at least suggest that to me.

In genreral, and in fact, everything runs out of gas eventually, and if it's not refueled, it stays, well....out of gas.

So, what do some of the rest of you think about this perpetual gassing issue? Do any of the rest of you perhaps also notice that cased awards, for example, show no ill gassing effects at this point?

I assure everyone that I am IN NO WAY trying to say anyone doesn't know what they're talking about, no matter what you may think about it. I'm just curious and a little confused, as well. The more I know, the better off I'll be.

Thanks to all who may let off some steam (or gas) on this very important issue.

Sincerely,

Chris

[Paul R.]

Chris.. are you out gassing( hahah). Wow! are you sure you want to go there?? In the world of conservation that's an on going topic. Yes, one would like to think that at seventy years things should be done out gassing. That's not true by a long shot. Materials used in the manufacturing of an item begin to break down. For a example old ribbons and some fabrics were manufactured with small amounts of lead in them. The cardboard material back then was mostly made from rags/old cloth. Sulfur, bleaches, other chemicals add to the rags/cloth to dissolve it to a finer pulp. That's not the whole problem itself. For a EK box it's the hide glue, made from an cow, horse, other animals. The chemicals used in the process to make the glue. Over time all these chemicals will break down. The EK1, and EK2 the blacken core paint has lead in it. As we are learning more about environments today lead and some other chemicals that we thought were safe are now deadly, and last for a long time, and can be unstable. The key thing to remember is. To keep the items stable or at least as stable as possible. Use archival safe products store store your collectables in. Use climate controls enviroments. keep artifacts away from each other(isolate them) don't throw them all into one box with out the proper care for each item. We in the conservation field has made a life time study of this dilemma. Yes, some people are lucky when they think that nothing has happen to there items. But when they finially see it they cry the loudest, and get very argumentative that nobody told them this, or how could this happen.
That why museums spend all that money on temprature control acid free materials, and storage cabinates. Some cabinates cost thousands of dollars that we store items in. No out gassing on these cabinates. The correct lighting on artifacts to prevent fading of items. Correct shade from the sunlight to preseve our past.
Almost done with the soap box speach!.
It's like I've said in the past. They aren't making any more of this stuff. I get a chuckle once in awhile. When I see some of my local collector friends spend thousands of dollars of a tunic just to throw it in a cardboard box. They can figure it out when things go wrong. Anyway I am officially off the soapbox. Paul

[Stahlhelm]

Thanks, Paul!

To tell you the truth I was waiting for your response here particularly. Yes, you have certainly put things appropriately and honestly right back in the frightful perspective I was hoping to somehow avoid. Don't get me wrong. Your honest, experience-based advice is what I wanted, no matter how much it hurts to hear it.

Your response has not only made me confirm some of what I already suspected; it's also luckily made me aware of even more things I didn't know, of which I surely should be aware. Thanks for that too!

It sometimes seems that even with all the best we can do, we are ultimately fighting a furious but losing battle with the ravages of time and deterioration. I think the best we can do is slow it all down a bit, so that hopefully a few more generations will be able to enjoy it as we do.

So, on that note, I'm also glad I asked the question. Even if it helps to make a few more collectors aware of something they didn't know, and take it a little more seriously, I suppose it's at least worth that. Maybe a few more people won't have to wind up saying, "Nobody ever told me that!" Now, all we have to say is, "Yes, somebody told you so, indeed."

Thanks again for all the info about out-gassing animal glue, dissolved rags, cloth, etc. I'd say one of the hardest things to ever get collectors doing is displaying/storing all their stuff seperately, unable to even display things thematically in the same case. WOW! What a bombshell that is! Oh well, I guess the more you know, the more difficult it all becomes during the process. However, the end product for those who heed the gas warnings will be the final victory, I suppose. In the end, they'll be the only ones with a collection...

I will end this by saying that more than a few times recently I've been happy to see that a previously unconcerned collector has read a thread or two here and quickly signed on to the conservation crusade, as it is. So again, maybe through the ongoing questions and answers here on the forum, a few more collectibles will be reluctantly conserved for the future--for profit as much as for enjoyment.

Thanks again, Paul!

Chris

P.S. To answer you're initial jovial question, yes I am out-gassing profusely at the moment. From the looks of your response, it also looks like I'll be gassing from now on!

P.S.S. As a final related comment, I must say that, in light of the ongoing out-gassing phenomena, I vote that we need to add an out-gassing smilie to the smilie list. Of course, he'll need to be securely seperated from all the other smilies, in his own seperate, acid-free virtual box, of course. It seems that such a smilie could be put to serious good use on this forum, even if this is the only place where he's used...