Zinc pest

[Stahlhelm]

Indeed. It seems zinc pest is to some medals what dry rot is to helmet liner leather. (But that is another story)

I agree, Will! Very informative articles, by the way. Every collector should read those.

I should mention the other possible hope with this stuff. One of the articles did say that some zinc items from the period, for whatever reason, don't seem to develop the pest. I don't know if this is due to optimal humidity exposure over time, or, as the article seems to suggest, that some zinc from the period may have just been of better quality. So, in that case, just keep your fingers crossed, and hope you're lucky, I guess...

I think I'll try garlic and wolfsbane in my window tonight...

Chris

[Will Brown]

Here's a thought, sometimes when I buy a bottle of health food pills it will have a small packet of chemical(s) sealed inside from the factory to preserve the product by absorbing the moisture from the air within. Perhaps if you obtain one or two and slip it into a sealed display case containing your pest-prone (or not) zinc medals it would likewise help to delay or retard future degredation?

I don't know, does that make sense or have I lost it?

[Stahlhelm]

Here's a thought, sometimes when I buy a bottle of health food pills it will have a small packet of chemical(s) sealed inside from the factory to preserve the product by absorbing the moisture from the air within. Perhaps if you obtain one or two and slip it into a sealed display case containing your pest-prone (or not) zinc medals it would likewise help to delay or retard future degredation?

I don't know, does that make sense or have I lost it?

Will,

I certainly agree that minimizing the humidity in the air is likely the only thing you can do--again, with your fingers crossed on top of that. Yes, the "packet of chemicals" or dessicant as it is also called, is certainly one way to fight the humidity. However, once the dessicant has absorbed all the moisture it can hold, it will, of course, absorb no more. So, that's why anyone using it should stick the packets in the microwave for about a minute after every couple of weeks or so (or maybe more often, depending, of course, on your environment's humidity levels). Microwaving the dessicant dries it out again, so it is ready to absorb again. The stuff is totally reusalbe that way, as I do it that way all the time. It's also totally safe to put it in the microwave. You can even buy whole cans of dessicant (or silica beads, to add yet another name given to them) at your local flower shop, since they are also used to dry out flowers. Even the directions on the can will tell you to microwave it for reuse.

Anyway, maybe you already know all that. However, maybe some collectors don't, so I guess it's better to mention it, just in case.

Chris

P.S. I also collect meteorites which are, of course, loaded with rustable iron. I have stored them in containers with the silica beads for years with great success, so far. My meteorites, which have floated around in space for billions of years in an oxygen-free environment, are still without rust. I believe that the silica beads are part of the reason why..

[Will Brown]

Actually that is all new information to me Chris, but very interesting reading, thanks. You obviously have a handle on dessicants and their uses.

Will.

Meteorites... very cool.

[Stahlhelm]

Will:

Glad I could tell you a few new things! Yes, when it comes to conservation and preservation, I'm about the biggest nut you could ever meet. I take no chances. Now, if I can only find a way to preserve myself as long as the stuff I collect...

P.S. Yes, I'd agree that meteorites are quite cool too. It's always neat to think that I'm holding in my hands pieces of the beginning of time, at least in our solar sytem (essentially unaltered, for billions of years), flying who knows where in the universe, before they wind up, quite by chance in my house...

[BILL]

Also , not all materials are the same. Aloys can have variable range constituants in the chemical make-up and will react to the local autmosphere at a differerant rate.There is no way to stop oxidization exept to store in a vacuum . Temperature, humidity and the control of ultra violet light is the only way.You can't change nature but you can slow it down. The use of oils will seal materials from the autmosphere and if others have had good results than maybe there is somthing to that also.

[Stahlhelm]

Also , not all materials are the same. Aloys can have variable range constituants in the chemical make-up and will react to the local autmosphere at a differerant rate.There is no way to stop oxidization exept to store in a vacuum . Temperature, humidity and the control of ultra violet light is the only way.You can't change nature but you can slow it down. The use of oils will seal materials from the autmosphere and if others have had good results than maybe there is somthing to that also.

Of course, I'm no "expert" on this, but I agree that environment is obviously the key catalyst for most any of these deterioration issues. The only sure albeit impractical thing to do is, as you say, store things in a "vacuum." However again, since that is not practical for most collectors, there is only one other obvious thing to do: Find out what causes the problem, and do the most you can to protect susceptible items from from the causes.

This is why I decided, in my concerns about verdigris (and in the absence of any other available information), to go ahead and find out definitively what causes it, and then just do what I can to protect my things from that, within the realm of what is practical. Beyond that, there really isn't much of anything any of us can do, regardless of how hard we think or try. I know that's a sad conclusion, but I really can't think of any other practical way to deal with any of it. The truth is that, unless we truly do store our collectibles in a vacuum, with a nitrogen-rich, oxygen-free, pollution-free environment, then anything else is mostly futile. As I mentioned earlier, the Cairo Museum in Egypt has determined, through their own extensive research, that this is the only way they can stop their mummies from disintegrating. A highly-detailed documentary about that was recently shown on the History Channel.

Exposure to the natural environment, worsened by man-made pollutants in the air, just means that everything is on a certain schedule to disintegration, sooner or later. Ultimately, there's nothing much any of us can do about it. As I said earlier, the most we can do is to determine exactly what causes the problem, and do everything we can that is practical to protect our things from that cause. Ultimately, we should know that none of it will last forever, and we are lucky to coexist with and collect any ot it.

I would agree that of the different things that could work, oil is one of them--especially since some others above have reported reported long-time success with it. This is really just one of the more practical ways for most collectors to, as I said, protect things from their environment. It's much like taking an aspirin for a headache, when you can't do anything else. I don't know anything personally about the long-term affects of using various oils for such things. Who really knows what that could to anything further on into the future? Who really knows that this won't somehow speed up the disintegration at some point later, for yet another reason? I personally just don't like oil on my collectibles for other obvious reasons, and fortunately, for now, nothing in my collection is affected with zinc pest. However, I'm on my way over to the wood to do some knocking right now!

That's just another of my sincere thoughts on the matter.

Chris

[Stahlhelm]

Ren Wax as a Barrier?

As a second thought (which has been mentioned before), it does seem that Rennaisance Wax would have the same affect as oil or vaseline, without the oily mess. Ren Wax, of course, coats the item with a barrier of wax, which quickly dries, as opposed to oils, which remains oily. The Ren Wax also, of course, would have the same desired affect of creating a barrier between the item and its environment. It would also not, in any case, penetrate the metal of the item to possibly cause any of the other long-term concerns mentioned by others. Just a thought I thought I'd mention, since we are talking about using things to create a barrier. Ren Wax could just provide the same result, without the oil, mess, and possible risk.

So, has anyone out there actually had success with controlling zinc pest by using Ren Wax?

Chris

[Sturmgeist]

Here's an example of vasiline being used to partially remove zinc pest. Sorry for the big pics.

BEFORE




AFTER




As you can see there is still some corrosion remaining if you compare the left side of the wreath to the right side, and as far as I know there is nothing more you can do to remove that other than preventing more damage from occuring.

*Note. The aftermath looks moist only because that is the remains of the vasiline drying.

I hope this can help.

-Brendan

[Stahlhelm]

As you can see there is still some corrosion remaining if you compare the left side of the wreath to the right side, and as far as I know there is nothing more you can do to remove that other than preventing more damage from occuring.

*Note. The aftermath looks moist only because that is the remains of the vasiline drying.

I hope this can help.

-Brendan

Yes. I would agree that the best hopes are likely in just preventing further damage.

Thanks for the photo example of vaseline use and effects! They're great for reference!

Chris

[Sturmgeist]

Thanks.

I also had a quick question about the badge. The back is a S.H.u.Co 1941. Would 1941 be the date of manufacture, or the date in which Shoni, Heubach & Co. began producing the zinc version of the IAB?

-Brendan

[Steve P]

This has been a very useful thread...Thanks to all who contributed.