Machine Gun Co. (8th Co.) 5th Marines, France 1918/19

[Eric Queen]

This elite unit of the 5th Marines ( who were the first Marines over there ) was basically decimated. I have seen a photo taken right after the war of Smith, Coverdale, Womack and the other survivors and there were no more than 20.

Here is Womacks DSC doc for Beaumont, won on November 7, 1918. There were only 6 DSC's given to enlisted men of the 8th (MG) Company.

[Eric Queen]

Sec. of Navy Daniels awarding DSC's and Navy Crosses to Marines in Germany. Notice the Corpsman from the 5th Regt.

[Eric Queen]

Original hand painted wall hanging made for the unit in Germany.

[Eric Queen]

Original helmet with their unit insignia, a Purple Square ( with indian head and star )

[Eric Queen]

And finally a original example of their unit patch

[Brian R]

EXTRAORDINARY

Thanks for showing, Eric!!

[Peter_Suciu]

That's some cool stuff Eric.

I sent you a PM. Maybe you can help shed some light on that helmet.

[Eric Queen]

Peter,

I will answer you here. This is definately the official insignia of the 8th (MG) Co., 5th Marines. This helmet came directly from Lt. Vern Coverdell ( who was a DSC, NC and SSC winner with the 8th Co.) and I have the letters from him to prove it.

As everyone knows, all these unit insiginas ( like the vast amount of shape and color scemes used by the 2nd Division ) did not come into existance until the very end ( and in most cases ) after the war. All the painted helmets, patches and other items with unit insignia you see, were all produced and worn during the occupation.

Anyone that is telling you that a "combat" helmet with no painted insignia is better than a painted helmet, clearly is misinformed.

Value of plain ( unpainted ) helmet as was used in combat: $40

Value of the helmet I have shown here:

I have turned down $1000 ( of course the value depends on the unit and the provenance, etc. ) Of course I would never sell this because it came from him with this patch ( the one I picture here ), his photo ID ( wearing the patch ), and his French made officers collar EGA's.

Ultimately, WWI US helmets are only as good as whats painted on them.

Hope this helps,

Eric

[Peter_Suciu]

Sorry for the confusion Eric...I was actually inquiring about the Marine Corp badge on the helmet. I know that the WWI painted helmets are very valuable. I just wanted to know if the badge was officially put on or not. As I mentioned I have never come across a photo of this style of helmet worn with a badge except by guards in San Diego at the naval base.

I've heard a few dealers say that these badges were on the helmet but on examination the helmets seemed to appear to have been drilled recently. The holes were fresh and the badge was screwed on with a rather lengthy bit of threading sticking through. That to me would seem kind of dangerous for a screw to be pointing into your fore head! I maintain that these dealers had drilled the holes and put overseas caps badges on the helmets.

That was basically my question...this badge screwed on or welded? And was the badge official?

[Eric Queen]

Sorry Peter, I misunderstood your question.

As to the EGA on the helmet, I am not sure if it was official or not, but many marines certainly did do it both during the war itself and during the occupation. I have seen several period photos taken during the war that show marines wearing the device on their helmets. Believe it or not they actually used a spike or punch to make the whole in the helmet, put the post through and screwed them on. I have never seen one that was welded on. Of course any helmet you see with the hole drilled through is a recent fabrication.

Many marines used the same helmet during the ocupation that they wore in combat during the war. I saw an original helmet once from the 2nd Btl. 6th Marines ( yellow diamond ), where the man had originally had the EGA right on the front center of his helmet, and during the occupation took the EGA off, painted the 2nd Div. insignia over the hole, punched another hole above the insignia and put the EGA back. So you could clearly see the hole in the star, but could certainly tell that it had been painted AFTER the hole was made, not before.

Interesting questions. I wish more people were interested in this stuff.

Eric

[Chris Boonzaier]

I find it really interesting, cant contribute anything to the discussion, but enjoyed the pix.

Did they fight independantly or with the frogs?

All the best
Chris

[Terry K.]

Hi Eric,
You may be correct. I have some nice WW1 US items(German also), including some EM aviation and MTC stuff but no one really cares. I mean it isn't billion dollar stuff, just local people's with documents. The only thing is when I try to buy it is GOLD, try to sell something, it is crap. Oh well that's my middle name, buy high, sell low! Thanks for the pics, they are great. Got more?

PS; I just got rid of a USMC campaign hat from WW1!

[jeremiahcable]

Nice Collection

That's a very nice collection you have there Eric. I was with 3/6 when I was on active duty and our regimental headquarters had a display of WW1 Marine Corps and German items. They had a few helmets as well as several bayonets and knives and gasmasks. It is rather a nice collection. From pictures I saw there and talking to other marines, the general opinion was that members of the Marine Brigade in France wore the EGA on their helmets in the trenches in order to distinguish themselvs from the Brits and US Army. At the time there was no other way to tell the difference aside from the arm patches or the helmet emblems. Marine officers were the only ones allowed to wear the Marine Corps collar devices until the end of 1918 when then Secretary of the Navy Franklin Roosevelt awarded enlisted men the right due to their combat record.

Chris, the marines operated in conjunction with the french but to my knowledge not under them.

Regards,
J.C.

[Donald L.]

I was just looking through this part of the forum, Eric, my compliments, a very nice grouping.

A large portion of my "storage area" is dedicated to painted US WW1 period helmets. One Marine helmet that I have bears only the EGA (no painted insignia). The mounting hole was punched and the device inserted and secured with the screw/nut. The neat thing about this particular helmet is it had been (and still is) completely over-painted in the deep forest green over the standard OD finish. I also have a Naval helmet over-painted in dark blue over the OD.

Don

[Bjoern Clausen]

VERY nice items you got there. Thanks for sharing them with us!

Have you got Womack’s DSC in you collection?

Regards,

Bjoern Clausen