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**Bruce Simcox** · 02-12-2017, 03:15 PM

Hi Kurt

......Type sniper badge into the search function at the top right of this Forum. You'll find all of the answers about these controversial items to date(2-12-2017).

Happy reading!

**Tony Bologna** · 02-12-2017, 09:18 PM

Without knowing much about these, I can say that this is a modern piece.

**Uncle Kurt** · 02-12-2017, 10:35 PM

OK, Bruce Simcox, Thanks with the tip that I should read!
When I read correctly it is a piece: Type 2 on the field gray backing?
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=sniper+badges

**Antonio Scapini** · 02-13-2017, 02:01 AM

IMO it is an original one.
There are a lot of links that lead us believe this is a wartime produced award, from wartime label, to wartime propaganda pictures, to entries in Soldbucher, to personal items, to uniforms with the patch machine stitched directly had from families.
And yes, this is the so called type II.

**Uncle Kurt** · 02-13-2017, 02:35 AM

Thank you Antonio,
It makes me happy to hear this I've got an original piece for my collection.

**Norm F** · 02-14-2017, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by Uncle Kurt View Post

Thank you Antonio,
It makes me happy to hear this I've got an original piece for my collection.

Hi Kurt,

Well, it may make you happy to hear this, but unfortunately there's no proof (yet) to support it. Antonio has correctly stated "IMO", meaning "in his opinion", but as discussed in detail in the other thread, this is a leap of faith with no solid evidence to date.

Without a doubt, after the award was announced in November 1944, there were awards on paper, but whether any were actually produced prior to May, 1945 remains unknown -- maybe yes maybe no. To this day, the only piece with any unsullied provenance is the "Type 1" Heinrich Franken patch which appeared in Hormann's book in the 1980's. And to date, only a single low-resolution heavily watermarked period photo of a patch in wear (with a date on the back prior to the institution of the badge).

The "Type 2" Grade 1 patch like yours on the Feldgrau backing is much more common than the Type 1 and is always mint and unworn. It doesn't help that the exact same thread pattern as the Type 2 appears on coarse backing with no border whatsoever, contrary to the official design (again described in that linked thread and also here).

In the end, the collector is left to wonder whether these unworn patches were made in 1945, 1955 or 1985 for the veteran and/or collector market. And IMO, the outlandish prices asked on various vendor sites are wishful thanking, hoping to catch a big fish with deep pockets.

Best regards,
---Norm

**Norm F** · 02-14-2017, 02:54 PM

Also, to repeat a previous discussion point, the Marine-Frontspange (Navy front clasp) was announced the same month as the Sniper badge (November 1944), and despite being awarded on paper in greater numbers than Sniper awards, never made it into production. And despite that, there are ship-made examples with provenance and in period photos to fill the gap.

None of that type of evidence exists for the Sniper patch in the same time period.

Having said that, it could be because of stigma -- a soldier (especially a draftee) is more likely to advertise an award for surviving numerous combat missions than one for the number of people he shot.

Best regards,
---Norm

**Chet Sowersby** · 02-14-2017, 06:52 PM

There is so much written about these here on the forum one could go blind reading all of it.
That said, I don't believe in this example.

Chet

**panzer1432** · 02-14-2017, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by Chet Sowersby View Post

There is so much written about these here on the forum one could go blind reading all of it.
That said, I don't believe in this example.

Chet

Correct, very fine copy. not TR

**Antonio Scapini** · 02-15-2017, 02:50 AM

Have a look at this thread:
http://wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/s...d.php?t=893214

Tunic comes in a very big group from family.
I was so stupid to think it was an addition, but I was mistaken.
Same pattern (2nd type) is on Bob Hritz tunic that comes from the '60.
So it is obvious that this is not a modern fake like some think.

We have 2 tunics with 2 type 2 patches and 1 picture + 1 group with type 1 patches.

**11C** · 02-15-2017, 03:16 AM

I have personally seen Bob Hritz's tunic and patch and it is "cruder" in construction as I remember it. There is also fading to the patch commensurate with the tunic and should not be considered added at some later date IMO.

**Thomas Durante** · 02-15-2017, 06:29 AM

I personally don't think any sniper patch is original wartime made. Just too late in the war for any real production and distribution to have taken place. The Luftwaffe PAB and Luftwaffe CCC were also announced in November '44, and there is no evidence either of these ever made it into production, let alone distribution. We know of rare documents where the LWCCC was awarded on paper, however the typical Heer CCC was the one given out with that document.

Norm does a great job explaining the current status of where these Sniper patches stand, great synopsis Norm.

Tom

**djpool** · 02-15-2017, 11:19 AM

I believe the U.S. Army handbook on German Forces, TME 38 450? has a color drawing of the patch. I'll have to go check. Jim

**Uncle Kurt** · 02-15-2017, 12:33 PM

Hi,
I thank all who have said your opinion!
It's a 50/50 chancse that's real the piece or not!
I will keep the piece
With the hope that we will find it is an original piece.
Kurt

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