U-Boat badge in cloth

[compressore]

Hi,
is this U-Boat badge in cloth a legit one ?
Currently listed by a dealer with a soldbuch ad other paperwork. The award date is 07.11.42 so maybe after those type of badges got banned ?


Thanks
Christian

[Norm F]

Hi Christian,

That grouping was posted previously here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...70#post6085770

You are correct that the sailor in question earned the U-Boat badge after the date the embroidered badges were expressly forbidden by the OKM to be worn. But then again, that patch has never been worn, so that doesn't rule it out being a good wartime patch.

We just don't know for sure, but I quite like the construction which is compatible with the bullion Minesweeper patches discussed here, possibly of French construction.

Best regards,
---Norm

[BubbaZ]

Hi Christian,
There are many bullion u-boat fakes popping up recently, some examples in this thread: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...+u-boat&page=2
but yours looks very convincing
Cheers,
Hubert

[compressore]

Thank you very much, guys.

I took the opportunity and acquired the group.
There are more pictures/information in the group than in the thread mentioned by Norm.
I will post close-ups when I will receive the group.

Regards
Christian

[Norm F]

Pulling up this old thread to connect a few dots, and to show how context is important to the impressions on collectors.

The bullion U-boat badge in the opening post from Christian, part of the grouping previously posted here, garnered positive comments, and most would say appropriately so given the appearance and context.

Yet the same type of U-Boat was posted previously here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=370069
and was met with extreme skepticism when viewed out of context by the same collecting community.

Those patches in the old thread had come from a hand-sewn catalog posted here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=369960
which was said to have come from France.

Repeatedly, these bullion patches of U-Boats and Minesweepers (at least the credible ones) seem to have a French connection --- not that surprising considering the large presence of Minesweeping and U-Boat forces on the French coast. Unquestionably they were disallowed in wear by regulations, but nevertheless some were certainly produced in wartime for private purchase.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

I just noticed that a worn example of the same type is shown on page 848 of "The Kriegsmarine Awards" (but with no known provenance provided).

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

The Minesweeper patch from that same "catalog" is a reasonable match in construction to this example (one of two that I've seen of this type so, like the U-Boat patch, that's three examples in total including the catalog).

The similarity in materials between Christian's U-Boat patch and the Minesweeper patch are striking -- clearly from the same source.

Nothing conclusive in terms of provenance, of course, but no red flags so far and it's interesting to pull them all together.

Best regards,
---Norm

[compressore]

Close ups

Dear Norm,

thanks for the comparison. Very interesting.
I can confirm the recipient of the badge was serving in France at the time he received the U-Boot award (1942).

Here close up of the reverse

Regards
Christian

[Norm F]

Thanks Christian.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Hi Christian,

What was his rank when he qualified for the U-Boat badge? — looks like he was an Obermaat when he was photographed with his metal badge. I’m wondering what his rank was when he might have purchased the bullion patch in France?

The reason I’m interested is, it has been suggested that these bullion badges were officers’ badges since some were reported in estate groupings of officers, but I think they were just as often purchased by junior petty officers rather than higher ranks. I’ve seen two bullion Minesweeper patches posted on German forums which appeared to be worn (briefly) by sailors with the Maat rating - one on the blue working shirt and the other on the Affenjacke.

Since they were private purchase and against regulations anyway, I guess anything goes when it comes to who would buy them and whether or not they would actually wear them.

Best regards,
—-Norm

[compressore]

He was awarded the badge December 1942 as a Maat.

[Norm F]

I just discovered a posting of another example of this type of bullion U-Boat badge. It's included in a photo of the Emmermann grouping posted by Sepp a few months ago:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...postcount=3489

Does anyone know if that was part of the Emmermann grouping originally?

Best regards,
---Norm

[brian y]

Hi Norm, that group was at Steve Wolfe's for years. That picture is from his room. The bullion u boat badge was picked up years later. The cases could get full, so things would overflow. I remember him getting that badge.
Brian