Commando knife questions

[Terry K.]

This knife walked into the small show I was at today. It has what looks to be a cast bronze handle, with a small 4 on the top part and half of a broad arrow and the number 7 near the bottom of the handle. The cross guard has a small ENGLAND stamped into it. Blade is blued and has cross graining still on it. The tip is very slightly bent as if some one through it once. Scabbard has had the lower straps cut off, and the elastic top one is gone also. Looks to have been blackened at one time. Is this a war time one, and what is the value range on these? I thought there was a thread on these but could not find it. Opinions welcomed.
Thanks,

[Terry K.]

here is the 7 and half of a broad arrow

[Terry K.]

cast 4

[Terry K.]

marking on cross guard

[Greeves]

Terry:

very nice looking knife - though I don't know much about these things (except to stay away from the pointy end) I did manage to find a previous thread about these F-S knives:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=18711

[RoyA]

Hi Terry,

You have a nice 3rd pattern FS commando dagger.
The 4 is a production number....1 thru 4 indicate wartime production.
The 7 is just a mold number.
The England stamp suggests it was exported post-war to the U.S.
Roy

[Terry K.]

Thanks All!

Any idea on price range?

[lnijherald]

Hi Terry,
Nice 3rd pattern indeed! It is of late war design; the blades were thinner and produced in a slightly different manner.
Price is hard to tell; anything between 100 and 200 USD is what I see on eBay these days. Sometimes "B2" markings on the crossguard can ensure a higher selling price. It is thought that such knives were made by Wilkinson by their quality and the toolmarks on the pommel nut.
Wilkinson Sword Company alone made about 200,000 of this pattern, they were available to every soldier stationed in Britain during the war!
Cheers, Luc

[Guy]

Hi All,

This is indeed a third pattern Fairbairn. Weather it was made late or early post war is virtually impossible to tell. Hundreds of thousands of these knives were exported to the USA in the early post war years hence the England marking on the quinlons. It was law at the time to mark all exported goods with the country of origin.

The number 4 near the pommel is a mould number for the grip moulds. The broad arrow and number 7 at the lower end of the grip are supposedly government inspectors marks. Usually these are to be found on the quinlons but do occasionally appear on the grip.

Over the last few years there has been a vogue of stamping any US export knife with spurious marks to make it more saleable. Collectors have long avoided these daggers as they are nowhere near as desirable as true wartime pieces and the addition of inspectors marks etc was an attempt to remedy this. I am not going to stick my neck out and say that these particular marks are added but this is something to be aware of when purchasing these daggers. The majority of US export pieces I have examined carried no markings other than the mould number and the England export stamp.

On the plus side your scabbard looks good and is probably a late wartime piece. If they have always been together then your knife is possibly wartime. Unfortunately there is still quite a gulf between the prices of these pieces and an undisputably WW2 third pattern. In the UK they tend to make between £50 and £90 as opposed to £125 for a tired to £200 for a nice B2.

Hope this helps a little, Yours, Guy.

[Terry K.]

Thanks All,
You guys really helped. I got it from a walk in at a gun show, he told me that an old vet who collected knives after he got out had it in his collection when he died a year or so ago. I don't know if he was a WW2 vet or not, but his wife is having this man sell his collection. It is a mute point now as I put it out on the table on Sunday and sold it.
Thanks,
Terry

[lnijherald]

The majority of US export pieces I have examined carried no markings other than the mould number and the England export stamp.
Hope this helps a little, Yours, Guy.

My second pattern FS knife is stamped B2 and England on the crossguard. You have to be careful indeed, stampings are added to boost sales and I have a picture of B2 being added with an electric pencil!
Luc

[Guy]

My second pattern FS knife is stamped B2 and England on the crossguard. You have to be careful indeed, stampings are added to boost sales and I have a picture of B2 being added with an electric pencil!
Luc

Hi Luc,

This is exactly the type of thing I meant .

You are very lucky to have found such a rare knife amongst export stock! I don't think many were handed back in. Now if you were dishonest you would be filing off the England as we speak and refinishing the Quinlons As an aside to anyone thinking of buying an FS, beware as this also happens.

Below is an unusual piece. It is the wood gripped variant used in the Far East. The Flook book contains a very nice photo of this dagger being carried by a Canadian fighter pilot in Normandy. Does anybody else have pictures of Fairbairns to show?

[lnijherald]

Hi Guy,

Yes I was very happy to find the "B2" mark; this was not in the item description!
It would be easy to file that off and reblue indeed. I hate this sort of practice and I'm not selling it anyway so I'll leave it in its present condition!
I have 20 pictures of wooden hilted knives, 18 pictures of ringed and beaded, 73 pictures of 3rd pattern, 125 pictures of 2nd pattern, 36 pictures of 1st pattern and 24 pictures of other FS knives (including the one originally made for Captain Fairbairn at the Shanghai Military Police workshop and French resistance knives).
Unfortunately I can't post pictures, but if you tell me what you are looking for I can upload them on my site (or copy the lot to disk).
Cheers, Luc

[britpc]

Hi,

I posted a thread of my collection a while back. If you are interested the link is http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ommando+dagger
I Have gone into detail about the third pattern, which I hope will help.
All the best
Irv

[britpc]

Terry,
Nice knife. Just a shame about the 'England' stamp
Irv