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That looks like an original Souval badge to me but the finish pattern on the reverse seems strange. It's trying to look like a fire gilded tombac badge, which it is not. The obverse is in stunning condition. I would suspect a refinish but I could be wrong. I have never seen one in this condition before.
I had a really nice RS 2nd pattern s-boot a few years back and eventually found it was nicely refinished, so I'm skeptical of course.
If it is real, it must be the best example on earth.
Regards,
FrankComment
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I'm in agreement with Frank. The reverse "over-splash" looks a little too "staged". Me thinks someone tried to hard to make the over-splash look messy as they often are ...
On one spot it almost appears he got too much on the back and brushed it off
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Wondering about the base of the hinge as well. The part that connects to the badge.
Maybe I'm wrong but usually it looks like a square with round corners and here it's almost oval?Comment
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That badge gives me the creeps. Mercifully, he still hasn't got a realistic looking finish with this over-the-top effort, in my opinion.
Also he hasn't got the internal cutouts right. I think this is another one to add to the reference thread on the hero's "output".
Best regards,
---NormComment
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A fake for sure.
best wishes,
jeffLooking for a 30 '06 Chauchat magazine.Comment
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Good job Norm. Not only are there diferences in the actual strike (or casting) of the badge but also the hardware.
The finish was enough to sound some alarms.Comment
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Hi Frank,
But looking at this example, the hardware is a better match. Also the outlines are a better match, although again not quite right, with notably a difference in the profile of the eagle's head. This is actually the only example I've seen so far with this outline and hardware which suggests to me either:
1) The Souval sample on the right is also suspect, or
2) The Souval sample on the right is a true variant upon which Staegemeir based his reproduction.
I need to look around for more examples. It could be there are many more period examples like this that I just haven't seen yet, in which case scenario 2 would be the correct one.
Either way, it doesn't alter the fact that the initial badge of this thread is a reproduction.
Best regards,
---NormComment
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Norm, you must also consider that Souval created these badges well after the war.
Where do the period examples start and the post war Souval badges begin and when do the fakes begin?
Also, according to Jeff, the RS finish for Heer and LW at least, are known to fade dramatically.
I do not think the timeline is very definite.Comment
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Hi John,Originally posted by John Robinson View Post
Good point. It's for that reason I'm unsure about the Souval on the right side of the comparison, with the hardware that's similar to the pristine reproduction. Because it shows different tooling and hardware from the more traditional RS HSK badge, I'm not sure whether it too is a repro or if it's just from a different place in Souval's confusing wartime/post-war timeline. That badge is Mark McShane's and is posted in its entirety in GCA, and I've now also seen one other example posted on sammler.ru to mixed reviews.
Either way though, the presumed Staegemeir repro is just too different for me to accept even as a post-war Souval.
Best regards,
---NormComment
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I am with Jeff V,
a 100% Staegemeir fake IMO.
The detail is weak and reverse outline does not match the crispness as would be expected to found on a known period original,as does the reverse hardware.Most original examples i have seen have a "rectangular" folded sheet metal hinge rather than the "oval" type of folded sheet metal hinge seen on this fake.
The "blue" Schwerin type reverse as seen on their tombak awards and the gilt overspill onto the reverse is a poor attempt to recreate authenticity.
Just my opinion.
Regards,Martin.Last edited by Martin W; 06-13-2010, 08:45 PM.Comment
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Good thread guys, and nice illustration Norm. I can only agree, these are Staegemeir reproductions.
TomIf it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a littleNew Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
[/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com
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Do you think Staegemeir reads these sorts of threads to get tips on how to improve>?Originally posted by Thomas Durante View Post
just wondering...
lets hope not!Comment
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Wow! I didn't catch the differences in the outline. Although the fake fire gilding on the front and lack of crisp details are what immediately jump out to me. I think there is just no way to fake fire guilding and if they try it is instantly an eyebrow raising piece.
John thanks for the super post!
I would imagine that the fakers try to pick up info from all the discussion sites...Jeez, if they only put that much time, effort and expense into an "honest" profession...
JoeComment
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