RBN Numbers; what do they tell us?

[Christian_GJR3]

!

I've recognized my second DEUTER gj rucksack by the code. Thanks very much Eduardo! Great gesture!

[km-spain]

So the list is very incomplete but we can find some military items, a good step. I hope that from here much more will turn up.

[BenVK]

Fascinating!!. I've always thought that these numbers were the coded numbers (to fool the enemy) assigned to an individual clothing maker, not the numbers of different product manufacturers listed together in one stamp. That's quite an eye opener.

I've got a couple of questions for the guys who have this list in their hands.

1. Are all the manufactures on the list based within Germany?
2. Any mention of RF.Nr.?
3. Does any of the information in regards to these numbers explain why a manufacturer was given a number in the first place? I'm relating that to the assumption that I've always been told that it was to fool the enemy. The more I read though, the more I think that theory is totaly inaccurate.

[Vincent S.]

No mention of RF-Nr's in this lists.
I assume that the indication of the manufacturer was based upon the founding date of the factory. This though is just a thought and is yet to be comfirmed. - I have checked other possibilities, such as street or city region, but no link was found between these factors-.

It is well posible that these coded stamps were introduced to conceal the exact factory location, especially when regarding the date of institution of these stamps.

But then again, we will not know for sure until solid evidence of this given assumption is given.

[BenVK]

Thanks Vincent.

I just want to clarify something but I think I've understood.

The numbers in combination on a stamp have nothing to do with the maker of the garment? It's a list of numbers assigned to the manufactures of the different products used in the making of the item with only the first number giving a clue to what that item was used for? i.e.

0/0487/0020/0050

0 = "used for military uniforms" or something similar
0487 = wool cloth manufacturer?
0050 = Insignia manufacturer?

[Vincent S.]

Hi,

This information has already been posted by me and other members, but I see no problem in it posting it again:

0/0450/5222

0= Production branch ( 0 being finished products, 9 being resource processingen- generally speaking ofcourse, exceptions are encounterend quite often-)

0450: City code, in proximity to the Wehrkreis capital city

5222: Factory code.

[BenVK]

Until now I have not found any uniform maker, but in the PRODUKT list you can find many "Tuchfrabik" (cloth factory), "Lederfabrik" (leather factory), and even "Uniformtuche" (uniform cloth). Also "Sotoffe für die NSDAP" (material for the NSDAP), ...

Ok, sorry but I don't understand what km spain is talking about then in respect to the numbers. He says that uniform makers can not be found from the numbers, only the makers of the cloth for example?

[Vincent S.]

This list, which is up to current the only one known to exist, only features non-military manufacturers, such as wool processing factories. This is wat Eduardo is reffering to, when he is talking about:

"Until now I have not found any uniform maker, but in the PRODUKT list you can find many "Tuchfrabik" (cloth factory), "Lederfabrik" (leather factory), and even "Uniformtuche" (uniform cloth). Also "Sotoffe für die NSDAP" (material for the NSDAP), ..."

[BenVK]

I have check many of the codes that begin for 2, 3, ... and IMO is clear that the first number of the RBNr code was a reference of the activity of the company.

2/ - was used by Wholesale trading companies
3/ - was used by banks
4/ - was used by insurance companies
5/ - by electrical companies
6/ - by hotels and wine and mineral water companies

Unfortunately I have not clear the difference between 0 and 1 that usually we find in the uniform garments and equipment pieces.

Sorry again but this guy thinks the first number was for a different purpose than you?

Just trying to work it all out.

[Vincent S.]

No, me and Eduardo think the same about both RBNr's and RFNr's. He is a very knowledgable collector, who really knows what he is talking about. We have discussed these stamps of line, along with some other markings.

I just shortly summarized what had already been stated in this same thread, as well as in some other, older threads...

More information about the RBN'rs and RFNr's can be found in my yet to be published book, Heer and Luftwaffe Winter Uniforms

[km-spain]

As Vincent has said we have a very similar understanding about RBNr codes. We still have many blanks about it, but the system I think that now is clear and we agree in the summary that he has just made.

[BenVK]

Vincent, please don't get me wrong. This is very interesting and useful info but it's conflicting.

The first number:

km spain says it's for a description of what the item was used for e.g.
"2/ - was used by Wholesale trading companies"

You say it was:
"0= Production branch ( 0 being finished products)"

That is 2 very different translations of what it means?

[BenVK]

This is very important information guys and it needs to be clarified because it has major influence on all cloth TR items marked with an RB.Nr and whether fakes can be identified according to the number.

[km-spain]

Ben what I wanted to say is that after stydy the list, the first number of the code X / XXXX / XXXX was IMO used to determinate the activity of the company, so 0 and 1 were used for military manufacture companies, and other number were used for other activities:

2 / XXXX / XXXX - wholesale trading companies
3 / XXXX / XXXX - banks
4 / XXXX / XXXX - insurance companies
5 / XXXX / XXXX - electrical companies
6 / XXXX / XXXX - hotels and wine and mineral water companies

We agree in this and not conflicting here.

[Vincent S.]

Ben,

I indeed fully agree with Eduardo.
My statement was just a further addition to what has been said earlier on, being the precise and well-researched statements of Eduardo and myself.
Have you ever seen a military item that recieved a stamp before it was finished?...
Just to add to the fact that this is just an addition to Eduardo's point-of-view.

RBNr's are by far an ideal factor to determine the authenticity of an item, as these can be easily faked. According to my opinion, the item should be judged by the construction methods, used materials, not by stamps. Just my opinion though.

Take care,

Glad to see there's interest in this field of the German Military Industry.