Ost Medal Blue Packet

[Skyhawk]

Hi,

I recently acquired this blue Ost medal packet along with a MM #15 Ost medal from a WAF member. After a search, it seems there is very little information regarding these blue packets for Ost medals. I could not even find another image of one, as the images are gone from several very old threads on this topic. Please assist, and give me your opinions, as well as post any images of similar packets.

The packet is UV negative, and has the feel of the more normal brown Ost medal packets. The blue color of the packet is deeper/darker than shown in the scanned image.

Best,

Jeff

[kokstok]

Don't like these packets I'll place them in the same corner as the blue u-boat and highsea fleet badges. Imo fake.

[Allan P.]

Yes, we hve seen EK11 spange packets and EK11 packets in the same style which have been

Allan

[Skyhawk]

Hi,

Thank you for the replies!

Since I am not a packet collector, I need a little education if you please.

I have a couple questions..........

1) What specifically makes this packet a "fake"? Construction, fonts used, etc?

2) If this packet is "fake", do authentic blue Ost medal packets exist? Are they marked with a maker? Does anyone have an image for a comparison?

3) I kind of wonder why someone would go to the trouble of making "fake" packets and not at least maker mark them to increase their value?

4) If this packet is "fake" what time period is proposed for it's manufacture?

5) What TR era packets in Blue color have been found to be authentic beside the EKII (Deschler Hoard awards for example)?

Thanks for all of the help in this quest for answers.

Best,

Jeff

[Skyhawk]

Hi,

Very interesting, a lot of views, however very few answers........

How can an item be "vetted" without answers to basic questions such as I asked in Post #4?

Do packets follow a different "vetting" process than other items of Militaria such as medals, badges, clasps, cloth items, etc?

I am cool either way, it is just a packet. It would be interesting to increase the knowledge base with factual information, images, and comparisons. I appreciate the opinions, however they are just that, without any proof.

Hopefully, I kicked the hornet's nest, and answers will be forthcoming.........

@Norm F: Hopefully you see this post. After you finish your incredible Sniper badge expose', could you take on Blue Ost Medal packets????

Best,

Jeff

[Allan P.]

Hi Jeff,

I will try to answer the points you raise in post 4 as best I can.

1. In my opinion it's the colour of the packet which rings the first alarm bell. I have been collection for 45+years and can't recall ever seeing a blue Ost medal packet. Seems like the majority of collectors are of the same opinion (see threads below). Having said that who knows if a blue packet was ever produced in the TR period. As far as I am aware no documentation is available from the period to confirm one way of the other what colour packets were acceptable.

I also don't like the print and font of the maker, just my instinct.

2. I have never seen a blue Ost medal packet that has been accepted in the 'collector community'.

3. If someone can add value to a medal by adding a 'rare' packet, then they will no doubt. There are many EK11 packets without manufactuers names stamped on them.

4. No idea I'm afraid. I think I saw my first one in the 1970's???

5. The are blue packets (like the large EK11 packets) for the IAB, and GAB for sure. At the moment I can't think of of any other Heer badges in blue packets.

I think that a lot off us dismiss something if it doesn't fit nicely into a a known and previously accepted genera which may well be the case here.

Who's to say that one day a blue Ost packet with provenance will turn up.

I have a few packets that have been given the but I have held onto them because you never know.......Suffice to say, if you like it, hang onto it.

Allan


http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=blue+ost

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=blue+ost

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=blue+ost

[Skyhawk]

Hi Allan,

Thank you very much for your very thorough response, much appreciated! I guess I will hang onto the packet just in case something changes in the knowledge base in the future. Fortunately, the packet came with a very nice Ost medal that was worth the price paid, without the packet, so no harm done.

My question to the group is does anyone have a matching blue Ost medal packet to the one I have shown?

Maybe having the sole example of a "fake" is worth something???

Best,

Jeff

[kokstok]

Hi jeff,

Sure you are entitled to ask for some answers but please note that not everybody respons within a few days. For me English is not my native language so I need time to reply.

#1 Yes font is way off in my opinion and they remind me, as stated before, to the fake KM packets (tested by Marcus Hatton) and the fake F&R spange packets witch came with a fake spange. Futhermore I have never seen them in a medals/documents lot.

#2 No never seen an original blue Ost medal packet

#3 Everything will be faked, the benefit of no makers mark is that it can be married to every maker marked medal (or unmarked)

#4 Probably the seventies

#5 IAB, GAB, Flakbadge, Motherscross in silver, EKII ribbon packet, KM destroyers badge.

Hope this answers your question.

Kind regards, René

[Skyhawk]

Hi Rene',

Thank you very much for your informative response as well!

I understand completely on the response time.

The Aha moment..........

Looks like the group consensus is there are NO authentic TR period Blue color Ost Medal packets.

Best,

Jeff

[schönbeck]

A bit hard to tell from the pictures but imo the text is not printed it's stamped.

The bag itself I see no problem with, it's probably not made to fool anyone, but probably meant for something else.

The stamp is imo added later. it's also printed from top to bottom and not like we use to see from left to right.

I would have believed more in it if it had no stamp. I mean it could be a retail bag from a local LDO shop or so. No one can argue against that. I have seen many types.

[Norm F]

For future reference, just pulling together some examples from this series of blue packets that have received the "thumbs down" from Marcus, Allan and René.

Despite the different appearing shades from the various photos, these are all the same blue envelopes with black splotched paper and shallow top flaps. The Schwerin U-Boat is one of the most commonly seen from the series (at least by me). In the past, Marcus has expressed his concerns about all blue packets of this particular type regardless of the font, and also all packets with this particular font regardless of the paper colour.

Again, thought to have started production in the late 1960's and 1970's (i.e. pre-computers and ink jet printers).

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Here's the same type of blue splotchy packet but with a variety of different fonts.

Included there is a "Frank & Reif" Ost Medal packet with a different font from Jeff's Ost Medal in the opening post, but interestingly the font on Jeff's does match the font on the "Frank & Reif" EK2 Spange packet from the same series. Thus Jeff's example is an interesting hybrid between those first two in the compilation.

[Norm F]

Here's the same type of "Frank & Reif" EK2 Spange packet (with the font that matches Jeff's Ost Medal packet) This one was part of a set posted previously by Ed (ejwahl1) which he acquired in the 1970s containing a fake L/12 Spange at that time.

[Norm F]

Here are two examples of a type of packet deemed by Marcus in previous posts to be a more recent type of fake, both bearing the name of Moriz Hausch. It's a different type of blue packet, but I include them in this discussion because the printing on the EK2 Spange packet obverse is identical to that on the "Frank & Reif" packets in the previous posts, so these appear to have evolved from the previous generation of blue packets.

[Norm F]

In the past, Marcus has expressed his concerns about all blue packets of this particular type regardless of the font, and also all packets with this particular font regardless of the paper colour.

For completeness, here is a compilation of past postings of non-blue packets that use the same small font as the "Schwerin", "CEJ" and "Frank Mänert" packets. Most of these were marketed as fakes. I've included a comparison of the font on the two blue packets (Schwerin and CEJ) and the orange packet (Osang).