I'm leaning toward original based on materials and overall construction. JMHO
-
-
Hi guys
In my humble opinion this zelt may have been a CZ camp produced item. I have seen CZ camp produced cloth items and many times the button holes are unfinished or roughly hand stitched (likely due to a limited amount of machinery to do the job). However, this is, at best, a unique item, which leaves me with some questions. Just my opinion.
Steve
<O
></O>
Last edited by airborne_steve; 05-08-2004, 10:13 AM.Comment
-
Has anyone got pics of CZ camp produced field gear like this zelt to compair?
<O></O>
Last edited by airborne_steve; 05-08-2004, 10:18 AM.Comment
-
This sort of shelter quarter with the unusual triangle section does exist in both splinter and oak patterns. The lack of grommets or even button holes seems to be a feature of very late war items.
Those that I have seen and handled have often been in very poor condition and I have never doubted that they were original.
On the basis of the shelter quarters in my collection and what I have handled over the years, I think the materials and basic pattern of manufacture are right for a late war item, including the odd triangular section and the shoddy button holes. The white misprinted section is not unusual, either.
The Czechs, and other armies, certainly used stocks of German equipment in the post-war period.
This shelter quarter was probably made in 1945. However, it would impossible to say whether it saw any use before May.
The image below shows a late war oak pattern shelter quarter with similar button holes and other characteristics.
/DavidLast edited by Frosch; 12-14-2005, 03:07 PM.Comment
-
Here is a close-up of the button hole and grommets:Last edited by Frosch; 12-14-2005, 03:07 PM.Comment
-
Hey Guys,
I will dig mine out also just to compare,
I am leaning towards original now, Any comments about the camo pattern?
MichaelLast edited by MGN; 05-08-2004, 03:18 PM.Comment
-
In 1986 when my company RZM Imports, Inc. used to sell original WW2 German uniforms and field equipment, we had several mint unissued WSS Zeltbahns pass through our hands which looked exactly like yours. Some were complete with all the gromets and dishpan buttons and others were unfinshed. They all came from the same source and none of them were ever issued. They were all labeled as latewar unfinished/unissued.
Let there be no doubt to whoever reads this, that the material used to make your zeltbahn is 100% original. The pattern you see on this particular zelt is called Oakleaf "B". This was the later version of the Oakleaf pattern used by the Waffen-SS. In fact if you look at one of your photos you can clearly see the makers used the earlier Oakleaf "A" pattern material for the long side strips where the buttons and button holes are located. It was very common to use several types of camo material when manufacturing one complete zeltbahn.
Rest assured your zelt is a good one and worth around $500 to $600.
If you don't already own a copy please get your hands on the Schiffer book by Michael Beaver "Camouflage Uniforms of the Waffen-SS" it's a great reference book for anyone interested in collecting SS camo.
Remy <><Comment
-
Question on the source of these (vary) late war zelts:
were these crudely produced zelts manufactured in the concentration camps and/or by Germay's allies?
<O></O>
Observation: The concentration camp produced SS shoulder straps were many times produced with unfinished/hand stitched button holes.<O></O>
<O></O>
Steve<O></O>
<O></O>
Comment
-
Markings on Zeltbahn shelter quarters, both splinter and SS patterns, indicate that they were produced by German manufacturers. Known exceptions to this general rule are those made from Italian material. Examples of triangular shelter quarters made from Italian material in my collection are either unmarked or bear RB number codes.
By the time the war economy made it possible, and probably necessary, for items like shelter quarters to be made in the occupied territories, maker marks had generally been replaced by the RB number system. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that it will be possible to identify a non-German manufacturer.
Manufacturer marks found on late-war shelter quarters, if at all legible or present, are only RB numbers. Until anyone manages to establish a verifiable correlation between the RB numbers found on shelter quarters and known manufacturers, any speculation on concentration camp production will be nothing more than conjecture.
Poor quality button holes, and other low-quality production characteristics, can also be found on other late-war, non-SS items.
/DavidComment
-
I've got three or four patterns in mine. Really neat.Comment
-
Hey David,
It is possible to find a manufactures name on a late war product, even a zeltbahn,
So this is a very late SS Zeltbahn, original and it super condition
MichaelComment
-
Okay, I dug mine out. Oak A on the main part both front and back. Border on the autumn side is Plane tree (autumn). One neck flap is green (brilliant) Plane tree (damn, wish I had a smock and helmet cover made of this). One neck flap is autumn Oak B. One neck flap is spring Oak B. The other neck flap is autumn Oak A. Lots of misses in the patterns. Late war quality. Lots of repairs. Faded. Smells a bit, but I won't sell it. I almost stupidly sold it once. I wanted to upgrade, but the variety of patterns almost gave me a complete SS camo pattern collection in one piece and stopped showing it. I'm still in the process of moving, so the photo capability is down. I'll post some when things are up and running.Comment
-
Michael,It is possible to find a manufactures name on a late war product, even a zeltbahn,
If you have an example a late-war Zeltbahn, preferably dated, with a legible manufacturer's name, I would very much like to see it. The 1944 and 1945 dated examples I have and others I have handled in the past only have an RB number, if any marks at all.
/DavidComment
-
Hi All
well what can I say im very pleased i started this thread about this SS Zelt some great information being provided thanks guys
and still more yet , it didn't really make sense to me but it does now! the lack of a grommet the poorly stitched buttonholes, here are some pictures of a splinter pattern Zelt with the Grommet missing at the top of Zelt Look forward to seeing you're Zeltbahn Steve.
Comment
-
2Comment
Comment