M 1944 Low Shoe Unveiled

[derspiess63]

Manuel,

Thanks for the enthuisiastic reply.

I agree that some members would endorse these as German without documentation but most would remain skeptical. Kai winkler posted a picture of a SS soldier wearing some unusual insignia and some commented that the photo was doctored. Of course it wasn't, but the point is all the reproductions have made lots of collectors "gun shy". Given the cost of collecting I can sympathize.

I think Italy was a testing ground for a lot of experimental German footgear. The 5th Mountain Division also tested Mountain boots with replaceable rubber soles during 44-45. They were well recieved but the wars end stopped their introduction Army wide.

So your in the enviable position of being able to run into rare footgear at flea markets etc.

I would love to see pictures of your M 44 shoes posted here.

Regards Jim

Hi Jim
I'd be more than glad to post a few pictures here...problem is my membership is still pending and I'm neither allowed to post photos nor to enter "skyboxes"...let's hope for good !HEY SEBA...YA HEAR ME?
Your shoes are stunningly beautiful and original Jim ,and the SS stamped pair I own is a true Museum piece I'd never part with by any means!I never listen too much to or discuss(waisted time!) with skeptical people...it's people like you...or Jos...or Willi Zahn...or Robert Kurtz ..and many,many other educated and nice friends and fellow collectors I've recently had the honor to meet here in this wonderful Forum that I'd love to share infos and discuss items with and learn the thousands things I still have to...helping young enthusiastic lads like Junior,Rogge or Teka and others and get more acquainted with this great hobby in the process,trying to avoid them to get burnt by unscrupulous(my English is getting rusty to such an extent I quite cannot find a synonym for those guys !) and loose interest in the end!
The other day I've recieved an email from a fellow collector who was concerned about the low shoes he had bought thinking they were German while they were Czech instead!It's been a honor for me and help him have his money back...I hope someone will do the same with me when I'll turn my attention towards rare camo helmets,being this a facet of militaria collecting that's definitely not my forte!
As soon as I'll be able to I'll post the pictures of a pair of WH experimental low boots I bought on eBay for a little more than six €Tenners and change that would make skeptical "experten"laugh behind my back for ages...while a friend of mine,a well known German collector,is trying to friendly"bribe"me in every conceivable way in order to put his hot,sweaty paws on them !The German gent I bought these shoes from even sent along in the parcel a copy of"Die Wehrmacht"they were found with in an attic!!!
Thank you so much once again for sharing those gorgeous shoes and I hope other fellow collectors will do the same in the very next future because I'm sure there are true little treasures out there for us to enjoy!
Hope to talk to you all soon!
Manuel

[Jos L C]

Manuel,
Concerning your " rusty getting English " ,I think I've more trouble being a Dutch " writer" here..

I think there's much to learn and tell about shoes.., the real stuff..
Footwear is a very difficult topic and good info is scarce..
When we're talking about original shoes I think the " text book " shoes are very hard to find..
Then there're so many " almost " or " ( maybe ) used by the Germans "..
This makes it quite difficult and a lot of pictures don't show much details on that.
Then there're the civilian ,foreign and other shoes.. and postwar not to forget.

As I said ,one of the tougher things to collect IMO ,but nevertheless very interesting..
I'm curious what future will bring about footwear in this forum..

Jos.

[derspiess63]

I think there's much to learn and tell about shoes.., the real stuff..
Footwear is a very difficult topic and good info is scarce..
When we're talking about original shoes I think the " text book " shoes are very hard to find..
Then there're so many " almost " or " ( maybe ) used by the Germans "..
This makes it quite difficult and a lot of pictures don't show much details on that.
Then there're the civilian ,foreign and other shoes.. and postwar not to forget.

As I said ,one of the tougher things to collect IMO ,but nevertheless very interesting..

Jos.

Ciao Jos,
I think you'll agree with me that a person like you , which I keep in high esteem,will easily be able to detect a piece of footwear that is period,telling it just as easily from a post-war or "almost"German specimen!I know that you know where and what to look at...materials used,threads,way of cutting and joining pieces together,forming leather and so on....by the way,have you noticed I haven't mentioned the markings !You're right...is a very difficult topic and one of the tougher things to collect and that's why I decided to keep only twenty-odd complete manequins and stick to footwear collecting,it's the topic I'm more involved to and that's also the reason why I started my very first thread(with no followers!)with this in mind!
Please don't use the word "textbook"Jos,because many well known dealers who write a line or two in books from time to time or lend their pieces to be depicted there are the ones who sell post-war Czech ankleboots describing them as "Original WW2 German shoes" !Jos,Jim,Willi Zahn,Chris Mason,Manuel(humbly ) and other collectors are the"textbooks"...the ones who share their pieces with other fellow enthusiasts and enjoy!
Of course...we have to sit around a virtual table and discuss a piece until we are reasonably certain about its originality,but we also have to keep in mind all those hundreds(or even thousand!)of little
details that help us and tell a genuine,period,German...or Japanese...or Italian...or Canadian boot/helmet/tunic aso from a post-war specimen or a repro!
Hope to hear from you soon my friend!
Groetjes,
Manu

[Jos L C]

Ciao,

Something to explain : I used the word "textbook" other than textbook ,to say that we all can agree about a pair of boots that are so obvious it can't be wrong..
Not the other way around ,that we go search for textbook boots and shoes ,the way other people say "these are the right ones "..

Further I guess you're much more skilled in knowing shoes and boots than I am..
I'm a Luftwaffe collector doing flightgear and stuff..
My main interest ofcourse are flying boots ,Afrika..other Luft.
I know " my stuff " and am amazed how much still can be learned...,IF you listen to other people and have a open mind..., hard for some..

But ,collecting Luft doesn't say anything of other interest ..
Footwear has become very important for certain collectors and although " old shoes " they gladly are willing to pay rather good prices for good boots/shoes.
So ,that says you've to educate yourself in footwear..
I also like to learn more about it myself and like to share what I know..

Amazing to see so many foreign people do know some Dutch words.., Great !

Tot ziens,
Jos.

[derspiess63]

Ciao,

Something to explain : I used the word "textbook" other than textbook ,to say that we all can agree about a pair of boots that are so obvious it can't be wrong..
Not the other way around ,that we go search for textbook boots and shoes ,the way other people say "these are the right ones "..

Further I guess you're much more skilled in knowing shoes and boots than I am..
I'm a Luftwaffe collector doing flightgear and stuff..
My main interest ofcourse are flying boots ,Afrika..other Luft.
I know " my stuff " and am amazed how much still can be learned...,IF you listen to other people and have a open mind..., hard for some..

But ,collecting Luft doesn't say anything of other interest ..
Footwear has become very important for certain collectors and although " old shoes " they gladly are willing to pay rather good prices for good boots/shoes.
So ,that says you've to educate yourself in footwear..
I also like to learn more about it myself and like to share what I know..

Amazing to see so many foreign people do know some Dutch words.., Great !

Tot ziens,
Jos.

Ciao Jos,
I used to live near a village nearly interely owned by Dutch people and I spent whole Summers with dutch friends(and girlfriends !)..I've learned some Dutch but it's been sixteen years ago...nice and cherished memories!
I also collect Luftwaffe uniforms(Tropical and FD Units)and it'll be great discussing this field of German WW2 Militaria with you and other fellow collectors!We all have to learn from each others and I hope you'll post some pictures of your shoes here!I know what you meant when you used the term"textbook"...we're on the same wave-lenght Jos,so we don't need to explain to each other what we mean to say!Mine was just a zinger directed to some "gurus"out there!
Groetjes,
Manu

P.S.;Next thread will focus on J.LO high-heeled sandals

[Jos L C]

I don't have any JLO high heels at the moment...,but I've ordered a pair...

I'll open a new thread on a pair of Luft Afrika boots I have..

Maybe interesting ,maybe not...

Jos.

[djpool]

Jos/Manuel,


I agree that footgear is one of the great unknowns out there. It probably deserves a book in its own right.

Having spent most of my military career in Germany, Holland ( Jos I was stationed in Coevorden) and England I saw lots of footgear I felt was period but didn"t fall into the textbook category. Since it wasn't an area I was extremely comfortable with ,I now realize I passed up getting a pair of M 1944 Service shoes, Rubber Soled Mountain Boots and a set of Heer Tropical Low shoes with rubber soles. Oh the price of inexperience ha,ha.

But when I started collecting female uniform items I managed to get a pair of female boot, low shoes and several pairs of DRP marked civilian shoes that are frequently seen worn by members in the military.

I also ran into lots of low shoes with hobnails in smaller sizes that didn't fit the military mold and I assumed were worn by HJ etc. Of course since the military started using children towards the end of the war I assume these "non text book" shoes were probably utilized.

Just my 2 cents.Jim

[derspiess63]

Jos/Manuel,


I agree that footgear is one of the great unknowns out there. It probably deserves a book in its own right.

Having spent most of my military career in Germany, Holland ( Jos I was stationed in Coevorden) and England I saw lots of footgear I felt was period but didn"t fall into the textbook category. Since it wasn't an area I was extremely comfortable with ,I now realize I passed up getting a pair of M 1944 Service shoes, Rubber Soled Mountain Boots and a set of Heer Tropical Low shoes with rubber soles. Oh the price of inexperience ha,ha.

But when I started collecting female uniform items I managed to get a pair of female boot, low shoes and several pairs of DRP marked civilian shoes that are frequently seen worn by members in the military.

I also ran into lots of low shoes with hobnails in smaller sizes that didn't fit the military mold and I assumed were worn by HJ etc. Of course since the military started using children towards the end of the war I assume these "non text book" shoes were probably utilized.

Just my 2 cents.Jim

ANOTHER GREAT POINT,JIM

Manuel

[alexandre]

"not textbook" shoes

Hello ,

here my first contribution to this forum !
I read with high interest this thread and I have 2 pairs of unusual shoes to show.
the first pair is close to the Italian model and is pretty similar to the "M44 "
presented at the beginning of this thread .
The markings : 26 8 45 + Rbnr.

[alexandre]

next

b

[alexandre]

second pair

The second pair is almost " textbook" made with a leather of very poor quality , with 3 hooks and three eyelets ( brown paint )
marking : 29 2 45 216

[derspiess63]

The second pair is almost " textbook" made with a leather of very poor quality , with 3 hooks and three eyelets ( brown paint )
marking : 29 2 45 216

Hi Axel,
I'm glad I've been of use in assuring you about the originality of the shoes you've shown me in the email you wrote me last week asking for my opinion!You've forgot to say that the first pair is similar to the Italian "Scarponcini da montagna"only in its exposed toecap and that they were made in Italy by those shoemakers who transferred this feature to the mod 44 Schnurschuhe thus turning it in a very peculiar pattern similar only in THAT detail to the Italian shoes.
If I were you I'd double-check the figure"2" after the "29" in the second pair's markings,since this figure is the internal measure of the narrower part of the shoe at the foot arch..and a German soldier with a 2cm wide foot I think is yet to be seen,unless you don't refer to Dragon's 1/6 Figures...but in this case would be too wide !
Since the size is 29 I'd say that the"2"is a 5 or a 6..unless it's a stamping mistake!
Hope it helps you further!
Manuel
P.S.;I've shown the third pair of shoes you've shown me in your email since you couldn't ascertain their origins to a friend of mine in Germany and we are checking against various pairs of Mod 28/30 Bergschuhe and see if they're one of those!In the email you wrote me today you say that the number 41 concerns you,but keep in mind that one of the pairs of schuhe that I'll post here is a pair of Mod 38 bergschuhe with this sizing;43/6...transitional and rare,even rarest in that they're marked inside G.J.R.137!If some soul wants to help me and post some photos while I'm"under observation"I'd appreciate it a whole lot!!!!!!

[alexandre]

Size .

Hello Manuel ,

The size marking of the second pair is 2 , it's probably a mistake , the german soldiers were skinny in 45 but not their feet ....

I 've checked if the size 29 is correct with the measurements of the boots ( internal ) and it's OK , anyway, I'm sure the marking are period .

About the GJ boots , I'll try to post some good pics in this forum .

Alexandre

[derspiess63]

Hello Manuel ,

The size marking of the second pair is 2 , it's probably a mistake , the german soldiers were skinny in 45 but not their feet ....

I 've checked if the size 29 is correct with the measurements of the boots ( internal ) and it's OK , anyway, I'm sure the marking are period .

About the GJ boots , I'll try to post some good pics in this forum .

Alexandre

Hi Ax.
the markings are definitely period...there has been a mistake in printing them on the shoes!
Cheers,
Manuel

[teka]

Hi Manu,

can you tell me again the difference between a pair of german m.44 and a pair of stink normale italian boots???

Thanks

Teka