Tropical Y-straps - 1939

[MilitaryCollect]

Tropical Y-straps - 1939

I will look for the specific regulation relationing to the production of "tropical y-straps". Again, without a specific date on that item and considering that webbed equipment was issued until war's end, it is impossible to accurately define an all webbed strap as being a 1940 early prototype.

I have already begun looking through the reference books and have not found anything supporting that conclusion. If someone else has definitive info, then we will all benefit from that information. It does appear from the examples shown that the earliest straps were olive green. The 4 straps I photographed indicate that both green and tan straps were issued in both 41' and 42'. Beyond that I agree, they don't add much!

But returning the main issue here, it is most probable that the 1939 dated leather piece is old stock incorporated into that pair sometime after the transition from all leather to webbing occurred. It is my understanding that the rush to implement tropical equipment began sometime in later 40', but I think the specific Admn. Order will answer that question.

Christopher

[Frozzer]

I think that central leather part is from an old stock production and at the begining it was used in standard leather straps production. thats is only one reasonable answer wich I think.

First production of y straps had aluminium hooks and Drings and I think if this web straps will be produced indeed in 1939 year - they will have metal parts in alu. too.


and here is mine web y straps produced in 1941 for compare

[marcinkappa]

I agree that we can all benefit from this thread (just like from almost all others threads on WAF BTW).

Especially 2 matters could be solved:

1. Were the fully webbed Y-straps (green color) really produced in 1940 and 1941 ?

2. Since when (1940,1941) webbed Y-straps with leather back tab were produced ?

[marcinkappa]

And the third interesting matter, which Frozzer put in my mind in another discusion on the same topic on polish forum, is appeal:

3. Do those fully-webbed Y-straps (very unique!!) come from ONE producer ???

[MilitaryCollect]

And the third interesting matter, which Frozzer put in my mind in another discusion on the same topic on polish forum, is appeal:

3. Do those all webbed Y-straps (very unique!!) come from ONE producer ???

HI,

There was a wide variety of manufacturers for tropical equipment, including y-straps.

Here's a link found thus far on the German's involvement, expectations and regulations with tropical equipment:

http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resour...oppe/toppe.asp

Will continue research.

Chistopher

[marcinkappa]

Christopher, very interesting article, I won`t sleep a few nights reading this

[BLASSIC]

Mine is "42" dated.

[marcinkappa]

Nice
With very interesting extra loops, rare.

[MilitaryCollect]

Christopher, very interesting article, I won`t sleep a few nights reading this

OK, sorry - been distracted. In July, 1940 the Tropical Institute of the University of Hamburg designed a tropical uniform and equipment which went into full production by December, 1940. I'll find more information in detail.

Also, the war to be in Russia (Southern) was also a great concern and also prompted the need for such clothing/equipment.

Christopher

[NZMark]

Some nice early straps on show. I still run with the 'old stock' theory on the central disc.
As far as I am aware, and seen, no all tan sets were produced (as per the green ones). There are of course all blue sets out there (heiniously rare!)
All green sets I have encountered have no markings on them in the way of ink stamps, and the paint on the hardwear is that used on GB 1940 buckles - grass/olive green. I would expect from that, and details in the method of manufacture, that all green web Y's were made by the one manufacturer before production changed to the 1940(?)41 tan version we know today. Does anyone have an earlier set than 1941 in tan?
Generally a good discussion - let's keep it factual so we can move forward
Mark.

[marcinkappa]

I have seen 5 exemplars of those early fully webbed Y`s till now (never personally although). All of them were very similar and had the same characteristic specifications, and I would state (just like Mark) that all of 5 I have seen were produced by the same maker. Does it solve my third question completely?
I don`t think so, there is a possibility that they are so unique that till now we just didn`t discovered even 1 exemplar of fully webbed Y`s from another producer.


And about the #1 Y`s .... I say they are not from 1939 for sure, the question is are they from 1940 or 1941 ? When Germans started producing this variant.

[NZMark]

True!
The ones I have handled came directly from North Africa - with no break in provinance, so probably the same contractor (why so few out there from the same area of conflict?)
I would be interested to know where any other sets were 'picked up'.
Tropical uniforms and equipment were first developed in mid 1940 - and pushed into production at top gear later that year. As the war progressed, so did the manufacturing techniques. Changes in materials and fabrics, sewing threads, quality of produced items etc all have a logical timeline of progression - just as in evolution. Gear evolved with the pressures of production and quality values changed. A very early tropical bread bag is quite different from a 1944 example. Webb belts were the same, as were (most notably) tunics.
There are bound to be some off-shoots in this evolutionary trail that came to a dead end - my belief is that the blue and olive green webb Y sets were the genisis of the series.
Regards,
Mark.
(PS - Frozzer - I can't see any pictures?)

[Mark Gibson]

Mark,
The all web y-straps are definitely a very nice early set. I'm not an expert but from my experience the earliest Heer webbing was green with tan being produced very soon after. This comes from studying many dated items including canteens with webbing, belts, breadbags and y-straps.
I'd love to find a set of the all web green y-straps but haven't been that lucky yet. Maybe one day. Until then I'll just admire yours Mark.

Mark G

[MilitaryCollect]

I have seen 5 exemplars of those early fully webbed Y`s till now (never personally although). All of them were very similar and had the same characteristic specifications, and I would state (just like Mark) that all of 5 I have seen were produced by the same maker. Does it solve my third question completely?
I don`t think so, there is a possibility that they are so unique that till now we just didn`t discovered even 1 exemplar of fully webbed Y`s from another producer.

Anybody got an all webbed pair with a date stamp? Certainly, I'm pleased to see such a nice pair, and perhaps they are quite rare. However, for the benefit of the members it would be appropriate to see concerete evidence on the issue - rather than expert opinion and/or conjecture.

C.

[John Hodgin]

I also agree that Mark's set in post 4 is an example of the very first tropical Y strap design produced. Perhaps the all web design was unique to certain makers, but this design has been verified as used in North Africa in early 1941.
Regards,
John