Messkit straps.

[Patrick Dempsey]

Hello again,
here's another mundane (yet seldom seen) item.
Strapped to my messkits are two examples of an issue messkit strap. These are very different to the normally encountered equipment straps that find their way onto messkits, not least in length. Note the three leather retaining loops to the front of the strap.
If i remember correctly, each soldier was issued three of these straps as part of his basic kit..but where did they all go?
The actual straps cost me as much as each of the messkits...
Here's the first on a 1944 dated example.

[Patrick Dempsey]

Another.

One more,
this one on a 1941 dated messkit.

[Jos L C]

Hi Patrick,
Can you or someone else perhaps show a picture on which we can see this strap worn ?

Jos.

[Willi Z.]

A tough set of pieces to find for tropical lovers

A '41 dated tropical messkit in olive tan paint over aluminum, along with a tropical messkit strap.

In reference to how many of these messkit straps were issued, I think the troops were issued 3 of the greatcoat type attaching straps, used on Zeltbahnen, etc....the ones with the separate strap attached Those also come in tropical style. I am not sure why they would issue more than one messkit strap.

Willi

[JOHN VD HEIJDEN]

ee

yes indeed the difference between normal strapps and messkitstraps is how long???
i use a strap that is come off a A frame otherwise itdon,t fit with the regular ones
where are those messkitt-straps ??????
i want to have one indeed leather and tropical

with best regards johny

I didn't even know that these straps existed!! I have some messtins which are hold together with standard utility-straps, but these? Never saw them for sale on shows or online dealers sites...very interesting! Learned something new today! thanks!

Are these marked? It would be great if someone could post some detailed pictures of the stamps on these straps, also....it would be nice to see some wartime photographes...




Kind regards

Jan

[Johannes Schoen]

Jan is not the only one who learned something today,

but why have these straps more than one loop? Are they sewn to the strap or can they be moved?

Patrick,

could You please show one of these straps unfixed from the messkit in its total length?

Schlicht/Angolio give the following measurements for the "Kochgeschirriemen":

55 cm long, 1,85 cm wide, 8 holes, 1,1 cm apart, beginning 6 cm from the pointed end. Only one loop mentioned.

Does Your strap have different dimensions? (sorry, it is too late to calculate this in inch)

Johannes

[Willi Z.]

Boy, you guys have to get out more....

Actually, it is these little details that I find of most interest to collecting.

Yes, I agree with the dimensions. The other straps will not fit. Here is a closeup of the trop strap on the trop messkit. The 2 loops do not move.

WZ

[Willi Z.]

And here is a pre-war Luft messkit strap with the rough side out and aluminum buckle. It also has the correct 8 holes. On a '43 dated messkit.

WZ

[Willi Z.]

And here are a few greatcoat/Zeltbahn straps for comparison. A tropical one, a pre-war Flak Rgt marked Luft one and the standard Heer style. They have the correct 17 holes.

WZ

[Patrick Dempsey]

Straps.

Hello again,
as requested here is a shot of the straps removed from the messkits (sorry for the awful quality of it.. they are tricky things to fit into a frame once they are spread out). Along the top for comparative purposes is a standard greatcoat strap. A slight size variation can be found between both examples, and neither is marked in any way. The loops do not move at all, and seem solely designed to keep the huge strap in place around the messkit.
Regarding the sizes we have 70cm for the longer of the two, with the other coming in at 65.5cm, this of course fits the messkit like a glove.
Whilst digging around for some more information i came across an interesting entry in volume 6 of Andrew Mollos series on the SS. This is the volume that deals with the clothing and equipment of the Waffen SS. On page 405 of the soft cover collected edition (page 5 on the single volume hardcover), he lists the various items of equipment that were issued to the individual soldier. On this list are both messkit straps and greatcoat straps, so there was indeed an official distinction between the two.
A further official note goes onto detail that the messkit straps were only to be issued with the (sic) "Old pack". This i think means the Tornister 34.This order also applied to field troops that were issued with the M1934 pack according to the regulations quoted by Mollo.
each soldier with this pack was to be issued with two of these straps to compliment the three greatcoat straps he carried.
Interesting stuff this fieldgear...

Patrick.

PS. if i can get a better shot of the straps done over the next couple of days i'll add it to the thread.

[Johannes Schoen]

Thank You Patrick for the picture, it is still usefull as it is.

These are nice straps, but I think there must be a different story behind them. Why should the German Army use such long straps with three loops for the messkit, if a short with one loop, like the pre-war LW-strap Willi showed, would be sufficient. Such a practise and waste of material would not be typical neither for Germans in general nor for any army. There must be a very special purpose for the three loops.

Are there any period photos that show the use of this strap with the messkit? What about the older and higher variant of the messkit?

Also I would suggest to associate the "Old Pack" with the Tornister 07/13 of WW I. The Tornister 34 had a pocket for the messkit inside so there was no need for a messkit-strap with Tornister 34. And as far as I believe to remember, the messkit-strap was discontinued after the introduction of the Tornister 34.

This concept was changed in 1939 with the introduction of a real "battleback" (correct?, German: Gefechtsgepäck or Sturmgepäck) consiting of Y-straps ans A-frame. In this concept the Tornister was to be carried by the baggage, and only from time to time at the A-frame. The messkit made its way back into the sunlight since carried by the man with a strap, and the Tornister (39) lost the internal messkit-pocket.

Hard to believe how intersting an "oridnary" leatherstrap can be.

Johannes