Help IDing Zelt

[starshy]

As requested, here are some detailed photographs of the pattern, washers, buttons, and stitching. I also selected the color range of the last image and produced an inverted type so as to see what kind of pattern rests underneath:

[david stone]

Just a wild guess here but this looks very much like the SS style camo cloth made for the Egyptian army. I have seen a helmet cover for a Czech russian-style helmet made of similar easily faded fabric. Also seen two zelts, one brand new and one much like yours. Pattern looks very much like "spring" ss one one side, other side has a tan background with large brown patches. Don't know who made these - Czechs? or who they were for - Egypt perhaps? but your zelt resembles faded out Egyptian camo more than Italian to me. Also the quality is rather poor looking, similar to the two others I've seen.

[CWP]

I am tempted to hazard a guess that it might be a movie prop, or some kind of postwar civilian thing (?).

[david stone]

Here is a link to a site to see both sides of some Egyptian pattern stuff....it fades badly, and the helmet covers resemble this fafed zelt you have...
http://www2.ttcn.ne.jp/~camouflage/u...iddle_east.htm

[starshy]

I'm not entirely convinced about the whole Egyptian concept in terms of the camouflage pattern, but if you can provide a similar shelter piece or something closer in pattern, I might be more inclined to believe.

Personally, I think at this point it might be a German style zelt, European with an unknown camouflage pattern (possibly Italian?). It was likely used/washed during the post-war period hence the excessive fading and replaced washers and rope as some sort of tarp.

Still entertaining possibilities though.

[Josef Hahne]

George,
After seeing your better quality fotos, I am even more inclined to believe this is not Italian camo. The problem is I don't have a clue to offer you as to what it is!! How does it match up to a german zelt? Do you have a known original to match it up to? If so, how do the button holes line up? How is the size? The detail fotos you sent of its construction seems crude and matches no German zelt construction I have seen. The grommets are horrible and the fabric is very coarse.

As a side note, you did not infer that Italian camo was primarily used by the Waffen-SS. Other members added that. I meerly wanted to add that it was used by others as well.

Besten,
Sepp

[starshy]

I agree the construction is very poor overall- erratic stitching and low-quality canvas material (which almost feels like cotton). If the seller had wanted to cheat me, I'm sure he would not have sold it for only $11, labeled it as "Russian German WW2 Zeltbahn" amongst other things.

In terms of construction, if you compare it to the illustrations here for example:
http://www.zeltbahn.net/tent.htm

There are a few general visible similarities which lead me to believe it is at the very least German style:

Overall triangular shape
Center slot enclose for use as a poncho
Four-hole buttons lining the sides of the shelter piece
Two lower washers on the center bottom of the shelter half
Washers at each end of the shelter piece

However, what leaves to be explained:

Lackluster stitching
Type of washers used
Pattern
Poor material
Differences in the construction folds and other parts of construction

What I'll do is compare it in-person to my original splinter zelt and see what's what tommorow (unless if someone has one in hand they could take a quick look at).

The other comment I wanted to make was that it appears somewhat Italian in terms of the pattern due to the "blob" like nature of the camouflage and bits of red which look roughly similar to the 1929 style. I could be wrong, but that seems to be the closest I can find so far.

[CWP]

Many other countries have used triangular zelts that have all the similarities you have described. Sweden and France are but 2 examples. I have 8 Heer zelts and all have 3-hole buttons. Though not impossible, it is very rare to see 4-hole buttons on German gear, I do not think those buttons are German. They look just like the buttons used on Turkish ammunition bandoleers to me. I feel convinced that this zelt was never used by German troops in WWII.