Originally posted by routemaster
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thanks for that closeup - thats exactly the same material mine is made of .. ! thanks !
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Marks on mine
My "paper" one is marked
njl
46/44/8
80 g
My "rubber" is marked
pcd
312/44/5
80 Op/Ark
Amitiés de LaurentComment
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Glad I could help out!Originally posted by Kuligowthanks for that closeup - thats exactly the same material mine is made of .. ! thanks !
Regards
IanComment
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Dear Pierre-Yves ,
Do you have any evidence those gas capes are post war? As I know German post war gas capes are a bit diffrent.
Regards ,
Blazej B&S
Hello
Sorry ,this cape is post-war. Wartime capes were mainly made of impregnated paper .
The one pictured appears to be made of some sort of plastic.
Hope this will help.
Regards
P-Y[/quote]
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Dear Pierre,
I think you are wrong with your judgment. <!--StartFragment --> We have already had about 20 gas capes like those which came from Czech Depot, bags were separately. However all of them are original. And all of them were marked with blue and some with black ink stamps. Some stamps are really faint and some have gone. Greater part of them were dated 43. Some were marked: epn 10/ 43 / 12 80Ly We 20 (Tp) Sonderrate a OBEN and other: 283 - 43- 1Ly We (Tp).
Regards ,
Blazej B&S
www.bands-militaria.com
Hello
Sorry ,this cape is post-war. Wartime capes were mainly made of impregnated paper .
The one pictured appears to be made of some sort of plastic.
Hope this will help.
Regards
P-Y[/quote]
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Hello
I understand that you are the seller of this cape ,and stand by it.
However ,this cap is made of plastic ,which did not exist pre1945.
Oben ,as only been seen on post1945 German equipment.
The dates and markings means nothing ,and are not a proof concerning originality ,material is.
Regards
P-Y
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Hello P-Y,
No, it's not that point. The reputation is much more important for me and Szymon than money. If we have any evidence that those gas capes are not IIWW era ones we will remove them from ORIGINAL section.
Material is... ? German used plastic much time before 1945.
Did German use 3 lettering code post warly ? No.
Have you ever handled those capes? Did you compare them to post war era ones? If yes, you should know that post war ones are diffrent. Some codes are: epn or eph, eph codes can be seen at some late war gas mask canisters.
with All respect and Kind Regards,
Blazej B&S
www.bands-militaria.com
Hello
I understand that you are the seller of this cape ,and stand by it.
However ,this cap is made of plastic ,which did not exist pre1945.
Oben ,as only been seen on post1945 German equipment.
The dates and markings means nothing ,and are not a proof concerning originality ,material is.
Regards
P-Y[/quote]
Comment
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Dear Pierre-Yves,
I have done some small research to find more about gas cape subject. So here it is:
".... Nylon sheets (Lyafol) were also produced with the above dimensions, were light brown in color, and marked with the word "OBEN" printed in large red letters on the outside fold. [...] The light and dark brown types have the marking "80 Ly We (Tp)" one one of the reinfoced corners; the blue and black types had the marking :"80 Ly" in the corner reinforced with yellow nylon. "
Bibliography:
UNIFORMS & TRADITIONS OF THE GERMAN ARMY 1933-1945 VOL.3
John R. Angolia and Adolf Schlicht
Copyright 1987 2nd printing November 1992 page: 132
I hope that this is enough evidence for you
Kind Regards ,
Blazej B&S
www.bands-militaria.com
Hello
I understand that you are the seller of this cape ,and stand by it.
However ,this cap is made of plastic ,which did not exist pre1945.
Oben ,as only been seen on post1945 German equipment.
The dates and markings means nothing ,and are not a proof concerning originality ,material is.
Regards
P-Y[/quote]
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v
Comment
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Hello
Everyone knows and own these book ,myself included. While I do have great respect for MR Angolia and Schlicht ,for their great work ,they have done some mistakes ,and the cap is one of them.
If OBEN was used during WW2 on cape ,then why is it that only yours has this marking :confused . Oben was only used in the post 1945 German army.
Unless someone brings me concrete proof ,that these were made pre 1945 ,I will stand by MO and say post-war.
Best Regards
Pierre-Yves
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Hello Pierre-Yves,
No, it's not true that everyone knows and owns that book. Also it's not true that only our capes have OBEN. You generalize too much... Everything what you are saying is what you think instead of what is in the fact.
Maybe there are some mistakes in Mr. Angolia's book but as I know in the Belt Buckles & Brocades. Uniforms&Tradition of the German Army 1933-1945 vol.3 by John Angolia and Adolf Schlicht is an old publication but in my opinion it's the finest work in German equipment subject so far. Please, pay attention that book was consulted and done by some other Great People in the collector's ring, like George A. Petersen. People like Mr. Angolia and Mr. Petersen can be mentors for all German equipment collectors in my opinion. So saying that I am wrong with those capes you are also saying that all group of the people who had helped with the book are also wrong.
It's not my intention to change your point of view because it's nearly impossible, I only continue the thread because on public forum you are saying that we sell post war capes as original II WW ones.
Kind Regards ,
Blazej B&S
www.bands-militaria.com
Hello
Everyone knows and own these book ,myself included. While I do have great respect for MR Angolia and Schlicht ,for their great work ,they have done some mistakes ,and the cap is one of them.
If OBEN was used during WW2 on cape ,then why is it that only yours has this marking :confused . Oben was only used in the post 1945 German army.
Unless someone brings me concrete proof ,that these were made pre 1945 ,I will stand by MO and say post-war.
Best Regards
Pierre-Yves[/quote]
Last edited by Blaz; 08-17-2006, 10:58 AM.Comment
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OK
This is going to far
First of all ,I did not know who was selling this cape when I first posted MO.
End of story ,I voiced my opinion ,this cap is post-war in my book and has been there long before this post.
No for my collection ,if it is good for you ,be happy with it.
Regards
P-Y
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Pierre-Yves,
OK, You Are Always Welcome
What is the title of your book? and who is the author?
Kind Regards ,
Blazej B&S
www.bands-militaria.ocm
OK
This is going to far
First of all ,I did not know who was selling this cape when I first posted MO.
End of story ,I voiced my opinion ,this cap is post-war in my book and has been there long before this post.
No for my collection ,if it is good for you ,be happy with it.
Regards
P-Y[/QUOTE]
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