"Prinz Eugen" pick ups by New Zealanders

[robs]

Hi I'm seeking opinions to authenticate and of value of items associated with 7th W-SS Division "Prinz Eugen" that saw some action against the New Zealanders in the very last days of the war south of Trieste

Thank you.

[robs]

2

[billbert]

I think the last insignia is 23rd SS Kama division...items to me look like AOK and story of Trieste 45 believable..Billbert

[Ian Hulley]

I think the last insignia is 23rd SS Kama division

The last insignia is a Legal Officers trade Raute.

Ian

[Persoons_Karst]

Isnt the Wolfsangel from Dutch SS?

[D Davies]

The second picture is interesting, I wander if it's what's left of a Dutch collar tab.
Cheers
Dave

[90th Light]

2NZEF LISTING: "SS UNITS IN ITALY 1943 to 1945"

SS Panzer Division "LAH", August - November 1943 (some cadre attached to other SS units in Italy from December 1943)

SS Panzer Grenadier Division "RF-SS", June 1944 - January 1945 (cadre attached to other SS units in Italy) (also "Sturmbrigade RF-SS")

Waffen-Gebirgs-(Karstjager-) Division der SS, 1 August - 5 December 1944 (also 24 Waffen-Gebrigs-(Karstjager-) Brigade der SS sowie SS-Karstjager- Battalion)

Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS (Ital.Nr.1), March 1945 - end of hostilities

Waffen-Grenadier-Brigade der SS (Ital.Nr.1) sowie Italienische-Freiwilligen-Legion

Waffen-Miliz; 1. Italien Friewillingen-Sturm-Brigade

SS Panzer Grenadier-Lehr-Brigade = SS Panzer Grenadier-Lehr-Regiment

Waffen-Gebrigs-(Karstjager-) Brigade der SS = v.SS und Polizei 1. Italienische Friewilligen-Sturm-Brigade (Milizia Armata) (Pol)

Waffen-Grenadier-Brigade der SS (Ital.Nr.1) = v.SS und Polizei

Ersatz und Ausb. 7. SS Freiwilligen-Gebirgs-Division "Prinz Eugen", April 1945 until end of hostilities

In my detailed accounts, I have the specifics of which regiments were encountered, when and where but this gives an over-view for now. Please note that 7 SS "Prinz Eugen" do not appear to be there as an entire division. The E.u.A reinforced with other elements were in Trieste and just out side it. Their mission seems to have been, to try and hold a path of retreat so 7 SS could surrender to the western allies. Only some units of 7 SS got through,

Chris

[90th Light]

Subsequent research about 7 SS Prinz Eugen in around Trieste and that whole sector April 1945

Before continuing with the Italian units, I would like to end the analysis of the Germans. It would be too long and perhaps unnecessary further describe the fighting that led to the siege of Rijeka and Trieste. I already mentioned the attempt of Rosener to help the retreat of Kubler and the fact that it was already a chimeric dream before it was officially recalled. In fact the units of the Prinz Eugen scheduled to make the last effort were no longer available, because they were already committed from May 2 to May 6 around Karlovac and after they started to retreat northwards. The legacy of Rosener was collected by Oberst Werner von Seeler (1907-1999) who forced the passage on the Drava River north of Ferlach at dawn of May 11, 1945, inflicting considerable losses (including two tanks) to the partisans, and delivered his troops as prisoners of war to the Western Alllies who locked them in the collecting-camps of Viktring (near Klagenfurt). These troops were composed as follows:

- SS Pol. Rgt. 17 (only parts), 19 and 28 (only parts)
- Personnel of the SS Unterfuhrerschule of Ljubljana
- SS Ersatz Btl. Prinz Eugen

Hallo Chris

According to other very reliable sources, I must correct myself:

- The SS-Geb.Jg.A.u.E.Btl.7 (Prinz Eugen replacements and training Battalion) was not allocated in Tarvisio but rather in Gradisca d'Isonzo where it retired in April 1945 in part through the valley of the Tagliamento (the 4th SS Kompanie C.O. Untersturmfuhrer Palige) which aggregated itself to I.Btl./Karstjager-Division; in part through the Soca Valley, crossing the Predil Pass, an area in which it sustained a few losses (probably due to the allied aircrafts’ strafings).
Subsequent movements are not clear, but probably it entered Austria from the Coccau route.
There are two known MIA of this unit in Istria in February and March 1945, then it is possible that some personnel remained in the area until the end, but this can not be confirmed at present.
In the Tarvisio area (Malborghetto- Ugovizza) it was instead allocated the SS- Karstjäger Waffen-A.u.E.Btl.

- With regards to the FSBB of the HSSPF OZAK, it was not stationed in Duino but until August 1944 in Trieste and later in Gradisca d'Isonzo; in the Duino Castle there were stationed the Bandenkampfschule, a Landschutzschule and apparently also a Landschutzfuhrerschule, all at disposal of the HSSPF OZAK.
The main part of the SS/Police units stationed in Trieste retired along with Globocnik on April 29/30, 1945 heading toward Austria.
There are no data on SS/Polizei units after these date in the specific area, with the exception of the SS-Polizei-Regiment Alpenvorland that however was probably allocated somewhere along the line Basovizza - Villa del Nevoso

Please, may you post your information about the SS/Polizei units encountered by the New Zealanders in Trieste? Any provided data (name, date, place) may be useful to find a match and identify the SS/Polizei who fought in the Trieste Tribunal or were encountered by the NZ troops.

Many thanks and best regards

Chris

[90th Light]

SS Police and other SS units in around Trieste and that whole sector April 1945;

- SS Pol. Rgt. 17, I and III/SS Pol. Rgt. 28 Todt (C.O. Heinacker), 1st and 14th Pol. Panzerkompanien in Gotenica-Kocevje-Krka river
- III/ SS Pol. Rgt. 19 in Velike Lasce-Ribnica-Kocevje
- I/ SS Pol. Rgt. 25 Cholm (C.O. Dippelhofer) in Novo Mesto
- SS Sonder-Rgt. 1 Waraeger in Podhosta
- I and II/ SS Pol. Rgt. 19 + a Polizei Horse Squadron, covering the austrian border
- two battalions of the SS Pol. Rgt. 6 in Maribor-Dravograd
- III/ SS Pol Rgt. 9 Alpenvorland which was destroyed

Chris

[wehl]

SS Police and other SS units in around Trieste and that whole sector April 1945;

- SS Pol. Rgt. 17, I and III/SS Pol. Rgt. 28 Todt (C.O. Heinacker), 1st and 14th Pol. Panzerkompanien in Gotenica-Kocevje-Krka river
- III/ SS Pol. Rgt. 19 in Velike Lasce-Ribnica-Kocevje
- I/ SS Pol. Rgt. 25 Cholm (C.O. Dippelhofer) in Novo Mesto
- SS Sonder-Rgt. 1 Waraeger in Podhosta
- I and II/ SS Pol. Rgt. 19 + a Polizei Horse Squadron, covering the austrian border
- two battalions of the SS Pol. Rgt. 6 in Maribor-Dravograd
- III/ SS Pol Rgt. 9 Alpenvorland which was destroyed

Chris

all of them are in fact Polizei units .

[90th Light]

all of them are in fact Polizei units .

The SS Police units seem to have worn a mix of Police and SS uniforms. You can see some good images of this mix being worn in this book;

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ight=Globocnik

A lot of SS insignia can be seen. Even SS double decal helmets still worn in late 1944,

Chris

[90th Light]

all of them are in fact Polizei units .

There were regular Police units and WH Police units also in that area at that time. These units wore regular police uniforms or WH uniforms.

Here are 3 of them for example;

- FeldGendarmerie Btl. (mot.) 3
- Pol. Pz. Kompanien 2, 13 and 14
- Pol.Pi. Kp. + an heavy-weapons Pol.Kp. Alpenland

Chris

[rbno]

Robs does not specifically say these items are veteran or estate finds, so originality is far from assured. Some of my thought are:

The wolf angle certainly looks old and is well made. I think this symbol was also used by army and KM formations. I don’t remember seeing metal wolf angle devices on SS collar tabs. A back shot would be nice. Possible U-Boat or Heer Pz unit insignia from an overseas cap?

The proportions of the legal sleeve diamond are a little off, and the construction is a little different from what we normally see, but it may well be a variation. A shot of the reverse might tell a lot.

There are things I like about the eagle, and some things that are different from what I like to see.

[Ian Hulley]

There are things I like about the eagle, and some things that are different from what I like to see.

These early ones are often hard to tell BUT this one certainly seems to have the card template and it's in good company.

Ian.

[robs]

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