Visor Cap Skull Opinions

[mrec27777]

From memory, wasn't there another thread on these skulls a few years ago & someone posted a period pic showing the very distinctive 3 prong skull on a cap.
This brought a lot of people sitting on the fence about these skulls on the side of them being genuine.

In my opinion (& it's certainly not scientific) ... I like them & I can see the need to simplify production techniques (as was done with some cap eagles) to use prongs instead of pins late on in the war.

Maybe we will have to wait for more definitive proof of their originality, in the meantime if anyone wishes to part with their examples for $15 I will gladly take them

EC

[dhunter93]

Originally Posted by dhunter93
No offense, but many Vets have fakes that they claim are bring back items and many Vets lie about their service records. This is not even counting the old men who lie about serving in the military all together. Unless you see their DD214 everything your told has to be taken with a grain of salt.

wow, you must be /think you are a lawyer ...oh ,,,no offense ....what i see in pics is a bunch of skulls ...so ,the three prong is a repro ? ...if so ,,,tell us why ...again ,no offense ... EC

What part of what I wrote did you not understand? The only known SS visor caps found with these three pronged TK's are fakes, no real SS visors have been found with the three pronged TK. If you don't think that's proof enough then do as you please.

Also, believing in the authenticity of an item because a person claiming to be a "vet" said it was real is a fools errand.

[Ian Hulley]

Im not expert in BeVo but all metal skulls posted by another ant looks to be orginal.
Peter

Neither am I but the cloth skull is original and so are the skulls I can distinguish from those photos. The 3 pronger is the subject, the Bevo is fine

Ian

[olle]

the holy trinity for the authentication of a piece
1 documentacion (the french catalog)
2 period pic the photo shown it (and as commented chris403 there is other photo that I think was the same as I could see some time ago)
3 veteran souvenir with solvency

I'd rather risk the $ 150 (usually a little more) than the $ 1000
By a zimmchler, a s.p 40, or an unmarked chler

[Funia]

Neither am I but the cloth skull is original
Ian

I know it.I know it....

[SScollector]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the fact that the only place that the paper is torn/tampered on this French page, happens to be around the 3-pronged skull. As has been stated, the ONLY application for these skulls are known fake visors. It took 60 years for someone to decide that the hordes upon hordes of these skulls might actually be pre-1945, yet the only one period photo that could POSSIBLY show one of these, is just a blurred image that resembles one
because of a shadow in the photo. This is why no one will ever pay good money for these common things, imo. It just doesn't make any since.

Deschler M1/52 skulls are rarer than these, and there are hundreds of period photos everywhere, backing them up. Bottom line, real items don't have to be forced proven original, they prove themselves by either the die similarities to other known originals, the overall likeness in the quality and manufacturing of the item, the photo and/or documented evidence that is very strong, and occasionally, the fact that an item is so rare and obscure, that it is unlikely to have been produced postwar. Of course, none of these apply here. Just my thoughts!

Chris

[mrec27777]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the fact that the only place that the paper is torn/tampered on this French page, happens to be around the 3-pronged skull. As has been stated, the ONLY application for these skulls are known fake visors. It took 60 years for someone to decide that the hordes upon hordes of these skulls might actually be pre-1945, yet the only one period photo that could POSSIBLY show one of these, is just a blurred image that resembles one
because of a shadow in the photo. This is why no one will ever pay good money for these common things, imo. It just doesn't make any since.

Deschler M1/52 skulls are rarer than these, and there are hundreds of period photos everywhere, backing them up. Bottom line, real items don't have to be forced proven original, they prove themselves by either the die similarities to other known originals, the overall likeness in the quality and manufacturing of the item, the photo and/or documented evidence that is very strong, and occasionally, the fact that an item is so rare and obscure, that it is unlikely to have been produced postwar. Of course, none of these apply here. Just my thoughts!

Chris

so BILL SHEA"S : item # s-550c "totenkopf" death"s head insignia for SS visor cap ,which was on his site a few months ago ...but no longer avaliable was a fake????
EC

[mrec27777]

PRICE $550..or that item ...on SHEA"S site ,by the way ... EC

[SScollector]

Bill Shea has offered numerous, well known fakes for many years. I'm not even referring to his 3-prongers. He has had worse than that. In fact, he tried really hard to convince me that his M1/17 marked skull was real at the MAX show over ten years ago. So, I must ask, why do you bring Bill Shea into this conversation? Just curious. Thanks!

Chris

[mrec27777]

Bill Shea has offered numerous, well known fakes for many years. I'm not even referring to his 3-prongers. He has had worse than that. In fact, he tried really hard to convince me that his M1/17 marked skull was real at the MAX show over ten years ago. So, I must ask, why do you bring Bill Shea into this conversation? Just curious. Thanks!

Chris

CHRIS .reason for bringing BILL S into this area of conversation is because i believe the three prong SS skull debate needs to end on this thread .he is just an example of someone who evidently ,i hpoe, believes three prongs arelegit ,pre-45 specimens .no post-war junk ..( nothing personal against BILL ) ... EC

[SScollector]

Ok, fair enough! Again, I will say that I cannot prove anything any more than the believers can, imo. However, as someone who has taken this hobby extremely serious and who has pledged to do my very best to help others by sharing ALL of the facts, opinions, and information that I have been fortunate enough to have obtained over the years, I feel obligated to share my honest opinions on this subject as well, and now I have done so. So, there's really not anything else that I can offer here, and so, I will leave the rest of this conversation/debate for everyone else who wishes to take it further. The only thing that I hope, is that we, the nonbelievers, and all of you believers out there can all agree to respectfully disagree on this subject and keep an open mind, at least to some degree.

Maybe more info will become available in the future, and maybe not.
Either way, we should all be able to respect each other here, imo, regardless of which side you are on. We are all students in this complex study and every opinion on this subject should be considered and respected, imo. At least I know that I am trying to do my very best to explain my views honestly, which are a result of countless hours of study and research. In other words, I'm not ust yeling "fake" without reason. Well, I will leave it at that, and wish the best of luck to the rest of you!

Chris

[mrec27777]

SURE hate to see this thread end ...wish someone had period pics of three prongs in use .... EC

[coogan]

I actually believe this thread has been a healthy discussion. There are those that believe and those who don't. It's no big deal , if people keep an open mind, who knows , a photo may turn up someday that give people a warm fuzzy.

If I was to sell a 3 prong I would simply state that the authenticity is in question and the buyer needs to make up there own mind. This particular skull is not cut and dry.

[dhunter93]

I actually believe this thread has been a healthy discussion. There are those that believe and those who don't. It's no big deal , if people keep an open mind, who knows , a photo may turn up someday that give people a warm fuzzy.

If I was to sell a 3 prong I would simply state that the authenticity is in question and the buyer needs to make up there own mind. This particular skull is not cut and dry.

Not cut and dry?

The three prong TK is only found on fake visor caps-no real visor caps have the three pronged TK- You can't get more cut and dry then that.

[J. M. C.]

Not cut and dry?

The three prong TK is only found on fake visor caps-no real visor caps have the three pronged TK- You can't get more cut and dry then that.

There are certain types of SS volunteer tabs that were never put into service before the war ended and there is no photo evidence of them ever being issued. We do find them in vet lots and they show a construction that is consistent with other SS tabs from Dachau so we accept them.

With the Assmann 3 prong skull we see a lot of the same. The construction is consistent with other late Assmann products and they have also been found in vet groups. The skulls have also possibly been found in battlefield digs.

I actually think they are war time.