Aluminium Deschler RZM 52 TK

[BenVK]

This one seems to be a defect, the zinc didn't fill the die completely around one wing.

[BenVK]

What caused these lines/veins? do you know?

I have a theory but I'll let you go first.

So after some research, I'm believe these lines are because the insignia is actually hot forged. That's where the alloy is heated up and then die stamped. Imperfections can occur on the surface if the alloy cools down unevenly.

BTW, have you guys seen this?

It's a detailed article that was published in the UM about the Deschler & Sohn firm producing Iron Crosses. Translated into Czech and then to English via google. It's fascinating!

http://www.fisherklub.cz/obsah/Desch...elezneho-krize

https://translate.google.co.uk/trans...-text=&act=url

[SScollector]

Thanks for the additional pictures, Ben!

As for it's originality, I will say that each person must decide on their own, as to whether or not they believe that this skull is real. It certainly is an interesting piece and a tough one to examine, although I have my serious doubts about it being authentic myself. Anyway, I'll leave it at that.

As for you eagle theory, I must certainly disagree with you there, Ben,
as there are shear marks on those eagles just like there are on any other real piece. I fully believe that they too, were die-struck.

Chris

[BenVK]

No doubt another of these skulls will turn up sooner of later which will perhaps give us a better idea of their authenticity.

I need to revise a few things about the Hicke eagles.

Firstly, it's not Hicke, it's Hieke!
Augustin Hieke of Tyssa, über Bodenbach - Sudentenland.

Secondly, I'm now pretty sure that their eagles were made in two sections. The front was likely die stamped and the back filled with molten zinc. So half stamped and half cast if you will. If you look at the photo below, you can clearly see the lip around the edge and the raised "weld" line around the feathers. Also, notice how soft the markings are, especially the RZM within a circle mark.

[SScollector]

Secondly, I'm now pretty sure that their eagles were made in two sections. The front was likely die stamped and the back filled with molten zinc. So half stamped and half cast if you will. If you look at the photo below, you can clearly see the lip around the edge and the raised "weld" line around the feathers. Also, notice how soft the markings are, especially the RZM within a circle mark.

That's an interesting theory to say the least.
I can say that the markings on the reverse of these eagles are struck and not cast. Consistency amongst each early example will show the exact same markings, while one can see the stages of die wear as the markings faded throughout production on later examples.

As for the skull, I too, hope that we get the chance to examine another and I would recommend that you hold onto it. It is an "odd-ball" but needs more study, IMO.

Chris

[SScollector]

By the way, that historical photo is very interesting as well. Thanks for posting.

Chris

[Winkelman]

Hieke not Hicke ..

Indeed Ben , thank you very much for that historical picture .. !
That pipsquaek of a town Tyssa über Bodenbach was just a tiny bit across the German border into Sudetenland = Czech , and so only part of the German production system from 1938 onward ..

[Winkelman]

I think that made them into " German " manufacturers just in time to produce some very rare Aluminum eagles for the SS-VT ,
and then a lot of zinc ones for wartime Waffen SS , from nicely silverplated ones dropping to a low quality ( see poorly cut example from JohnT. ) .

But in 1938 they were ( IMO ) already too late in the game to be needed for black visor Cupal = no M1/167 Cupal eagles were ever made as far as I know ..

[Winkelman]

The firm of Hicke ( from now on now Hieke ) also produced the zinc eagle for the Slovac FS ( Freiwillige Schutzstaffel ) , which makes geographical sense .
Notice that the RZM & SS roundels are MISSING here , this being an insignia now produced for a foreign , still " independant " nation .. !

[Winkelman]

Alu SS Hieke eagle with " normal " M1/52 alu TK
+ Hieke Party eagle just for fun & not mine .

O.K. , now back to the discussion at hand about " abnormal " alu Deschler TK's ..

[BenVK]

But in 1938 they were ( IMO ) already too late in the game to be needed for black visor Cupal = no M1/167 Cupal eagles were ever made as far as I know ..

I don't recall seeing a cupal one either and think your theory makes sense.

Thanks for posting the Party eagle, that one is most definitely die stamped and is a good comparison to the others shown here.

[BenVK]

As for the skull, I too, hope that we get the chance to examine another and I would recommend that you hold onto it. It is an "odd-ball" but needs more study, IMO

Good idea Chris.
I've cleaned off the glue now and in a box it will go.

[Winkelman]

Do you have a picture of the front side of the one you posted with the incorrect M/1 52 marking that you could post here?

Thanks!

Chris

Almost overlooked the question , but here it is .
I have a LOT more faith in the one that Ben has now , and the correctly spelled one from JohnT. , for that matter . Trial runs ? Both seem to be unique ..

Finally an interesting discussion about variations almost unknown . As for the Hicke / Hieke eagles , I think maybe we are not looking at manufacturing techniques , but rather inferior / soft materials sometimes used in hasty die stamping ?

[Winkelman]

Btw , now that I have my Alu Assmann skull here from Emedals , I can compare minute die & cutting flaws that it shares with my tombak version .
And Assmann , however large & famous the maker may have been , obviously was not above using low quality , porous metals that gave their products an inferior look compared to e.g. Deschler .
An odd company anyway , with their zinc 3 pronged insignia found unused in storage , and skull buttons that never were approved of .
Yes , IMO an original Assmann M5/8 TK button did exist , an extremely rare one , and definitely not the monkey-faced one that is commonly encountered with that marking - perhaps one day worthy of another thread ..

[SScollector]

Do you have any pictures of one of these Assmann skull buttons that you are referring to?
I would love to see it.

Thanks!

Chris