Camo coming from Lorenzo? Post it here!

[Palmenmuster]

Hi Tom,

Would be interesting seeing a cover from Norway who have provenance since a very long time (say from the 1970´s) with the diagonal cut.

Can you provide one?

Best

Peter

Hi Peter, I will show you a cover From Norway with rock solid history dating back to may 1945. This cover has the left part cut diagonal, the senter- and right parts are horizontal cut. This cover is not a pre-war, neither a late war cover.

That means by Fritz and Owens statements that this cover is fake. So will this cover kill the cat? BTW I find your cap promising, needs and hands-on inspection as always.
Best regards, Tom

[Fritz]

Lay the cover out flat and pull the spring so that there are no creases in the material. Then look at the whole cover and ask yourself how this was cut out.

I see you are trying everything you can not to understand the problem. Look at all originals you can and then look at Lorenzo's covers. Lorenzo's covers and caps all show this.

If that is no reason for concern then I for one will be unable to help you.

[Fritz]

For others looking at that cover posted by Tom keep in mind that the spring tunnel was likely sewn on at quite an angle (which is correct but adds to the confusion).

The cover must lay flat on a table and must be fully visible. Not just a section. Only then you will see at what angle the spring tunnel was sewn on etc..

Cheers

[Palmenmuster]

Lay the cover out flat and pull the spring so that there are no creases in the material. Then look at the whole cover and ask yourself how this was cut out.

I see you are trying everything you can not to understand the problem. Look at all originals you can and then look at Lorenzo's covers. Lorenzo's covers and caps all show this.

If that is no reason for concern then I for one will be unable to help you.

I fully understand the "Problem", I can very well see that the left side part is cut diagonally as this is cut different than the right part wiich is horisontal. Just look at the nr.5 and the angle of the weave - this is diagonal when stretched- and lying flat.

So that means this cover is a FAKE ? I just want your expert opinion on this cover, is it a Fake?

Tom

[17thairborne]

Sewing is one of the keys to these helmet covers.

Modern thread..........and Vintage thread work completely different.

Like Ying and Yang,.

Please educate yourself and look at the sewing on the HOARD.


Then look at lorenzos fake helmet covers.

Use your eyes and study how vintage cloth and sewing marry together.

Then look at Lorenzos fake covers, what will pop out is the sewing.........you will notice the thickness of the thread, you will notice the micro white puffs around the sewing holes where the modern thread pierces the vintage fabric, you will notice the automatic even spaced sewing holes, you will notice the uniformity in Lorenzos covers.

Lorenzos covers are all similar but slightly different but similar.
The wash is simply put cheesy.
The cloth changes.
The sewing is similar.
The contrived tan thread is consistent with the fake paying NO attention to age.

I am only scratching the surface with the con that numbers over 50 covers.

owen

Thanks, that helps and is applicable for the search for believable field made items also.

[Fritz]

when stretched- and lying flat.

Then why don't you take a picture of this?

[ironcross13]

Seems like a interesting but scary topic.

So helmet covers from "Horsetrainer" are original?

[Fritz]

So helmet covers from "Horsetrainer" are original?

They look good.

They are nothing like Lorenzo's covers.

[kammo man]

So if i understand this right, A lot of zelthbahns has been cut up to make these covers?
Nice original items, cut up just to make profit...it really is sad.

Also the above, how many has been made 50? 100? 500? I guess it depended on the access to zelthbahns, any wild guess? as its been going on for years it seems

they must have made their way to several dealers, did you follow any traces to other dealers?

I think now is the time for them to step up...

in all fairness when I informed Bill Shea about his bad covers he removed them immediately.
When I informed Collectors Guild they were removed immediately.

When I see them in personal friends collections the owned pauses and realizes he's been had.
There are many many covers.
More than 50.
I can't give number to caps as I never tracked those.

[kammo man]

I think that this pearl of wisdom speack for themselves, each collector with a minimum knolwedge and something in collection know is the biggest BS.
By the way I will say what I think about, for the people are interesting in the matter:

Duck fabrick used to manifacture zeltbahns, caps, covers, smocks, etc etc...was the same for ALL articles described.
The differences between the cotton duck fabrick is not for the different emploiment, but by productor to productor, that had some very light difference, and EXPECIALLY for the time frame of production.
The cotton duck fabrick suffered an evolution during the years of war , or better a Devolution like all other cloths employed in the manifacture of uniforms, like wool, HBT etc.
According to how much percentage of cotton, rajon and other natural fibers were in the fabrick the consistence changed, since the last war exemples by all collectors know like "last ditch" zeltbahns printed in two pattern of Okaleaf that are in a consistent different thickness compared with the cotton duck manifactured the years before, after that seams was suspended the production of this type of cloth...in fact almost all covers found by Horsetrainer are made with this late war cotton duck fabrick, existing also zeltbahns and smocks in the same fabrick.
Following the time frame you can have smock/zelt/Cover in the same pattern, with same type of cotton duck...

But you only used ZELT making your fake covers.

[kammo man]

Thanks, that helps and is applicable for the search for believable field made items also.

Fieldmade is completely different.

[kammo man]

Owen,
you are ridiculous, I try to use the logic that is an elementar function of the brain...
-why to remade a fake helmet cover someone should use moder thread? you can buy original thread everywhere, at the shows, flea markest , ebay etc....
-threads used in production of helmet covers were of different types, thick, thin , of various colors, the same used in the production of zeltbahns and uniforms, ( not smock that used for the most the black color) also with different percentage of cotton/rajon inside, so by this difference of rajon percentage change also the brightness, naturally an important factor is the age of the entire cover. (loock at the pictures bellow)

-For the white puff , like you call them, take a loock at the picture bellow, covers from the Horsetrainer batch, ...they are actually remade?
I loocked information myself in the past becouse I was also interested in this details of the construction, the white puffs appaer when is used to stitch the cover a needle bigger of the plot of the texture, so it broke the plot and appaer the white pluff, you can notice clearly this detail in the Horsetrainer helmet covers.
- Uniformity or not uniformity in the stitching is by different constructors and age of the manifacture, generally eraly covers are better done, like other war time, generally Rbnr manifacture worked much better by the Work camps SS that used inmates to made this artifacts.
Same for all other stuffs, WH uniforms, made by Rbnr manifacture are better of M43 SS tunics, generally bad sewn.

Your final insinuations is fake and is clearly a fantasy personal attack, not allowed by the rules of this forum.

sorry Lorenzo,
there is no personal attack.
I have met you 2 times and you are a charming guy........who plays people.
I just seen through your natural Show charm and added 2 and 2 together.
Take it for what it is.
In England it is called "fair Cop Guv".
owen

[kammo man]

Here is possible to see different threads, used to stitching the helmet covers, different in color, thickness and expecially in percentage of cotton rajon, for exemple early cover used for the most good cotton thread, same of the used for the zeltbahn manifacture, later war helmet covers were normally stitched with fieldgrey or tan uniform thread or rajon and how is possible to notice in the picture bellow a mix of three threads were employed for the constrution of this cover, the dark brown in full rajon composition...

Its like a crime line up in a police station.
Which ones are the fake covers.
You walk the line and pick the item thats wrong.

[Rene Chavez]

Wow this is an eye opening and interesting thread to say the least I just don’t know what to think about these camo covers on who’s right and who’s wrong. It seems like a heavy weight bout between two camo experts Owen and Lorenzo.

Rene Chavez
www.foreignvolunteerlegion.com

[Palmenmuster]

Then why don't you take a picture of this?

Why do you ask? Is the present picture not clear enough for you? Do you have any opinion from the picture? I understand why you dont want to answer - your theory goes down the drain.
Tom