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    #136
    Hi Emil,
    you are so in hurry, be patient, but I have to answer also to other members here.

    Well after 10/11 years I dont remember well, I also, like Peter lost my archives over the years , in true I stop to collect SS stuffs around 2008/2009.
    But I remeber I did some deals with him of course, when I started to sold my collection 10 years ago, I remeber weel the Blurred edge cap.
    Loocking at the pictures he posted I like them, spring tunnels on the cover arent a problem to me, cap also.




    Originally posted by zozole View Post
    Mr Lorenzo,
    The caps posted by Peter are they from you or not.

    This is a thread about camo coming from you Sir..

    I have not seen you answer or denie this, so i am assuming that they are from you..

    Comment

      #137
      Let me add, if I may, that I am confindent that your books will indeed be a "reference"!

      Care to answer the questions?

      Cheers

      Comment

        #138
        Originally posted by Lorenz View Post

        Well after 10/11 years I dont remember well, I also, like Peter lost my archives over the years.
        Oh no!

        Let me help you out: I remember clearly that the blurred edge and the cover came from you as Peter contacted me about them back then.

        Comment

          #139
          Originally posted by kammo man View Post
          Late war covers have looser standards.
          Most of the Lorenzo covers use overprint ZELT fabric NOT pullover-cap-helmet cover cloth.
          Don't forget that.

          HELMET COVER fabric is NOT ZELT fabric.
          Owen, according to Beaver, Borsarello and the U.S. Richardson report from 20.july 1945 - all state that the fabric is the same in Zelts / Smocks / Covers / Caps. Do we have any new facts proving different?
          Tom

          Comment

            #140
            Originally posted by Palmenmuster View Post
            Owen, according to Beaver, Borsarello and the U.S. Richardson report from 20.july 1945 - all state that the fabric is the same in Zelts / Smocks / Covers / Caps. Do we have any new facts proving different?
            Tom
            Tom:

            Please take this elsewhere. Start a new thread or sort of.

            Thanks!

            Comment

              #141
              Originally posted by Fritz View Post
              Tom:

              Please take this elsewhere. Start a new thread or sort of.

              Thanks!
              Fritz, I think this is a relevant question, do you share Owens opinion about this ?
              Tom

              Comment

                #142
                Owen,
                you are ridiculous, I try to use the logic that is an elementar function of the brain...
                -why to remade a fake helmet cover someone should use moder thread? you can buy original thread everywhere, at the shows, flea markest , ebay etc....
                -threads used in production of helmet covers were of different types, thick, thin , of various colors, the same used in the production of zeltbahns and uniforms, ( not smock that used for the most the black color) also with different percentage of cotton/rajon inside, so by this difference of rajon percentage change also the brightness, naturally an important factor is the age of the entire cover. (loock at the pictures bellow)

                -For the white puff , like you call them, take a loock at the picture bellow, covers from the Horsetrainer batch, ...they are actually remade?
                I loocked information myself in the past becouse I was also interested in this details of the construction, the white puffs appaer when is used to stitch the cover a needle bigger of the plot of the texture, so it broke the plot and appaer the white pluff, you can notice clearly this detail in the Horsetrainer helmet covers.
                - Uniformity or not uniformity in the stitching is by different constructors and age of the manifacture, generally eraly covers are better done, like other war time, generally Rbnr manifacture worked much better by the Work camps SS that used inmates to made this artifacts.
                Same for all other stuffs, WH uniforms, made by Rbnr manifacture are better of M43 SS tunics, generally bad sewn.

                Your final insinuations is fake and is clearly a fantasy personal attack, not allowed by the rules of this forum.



                Originally posted by kammo man View Post
                Sewing is one of the keys to these helmet covers.

                Modern thread..........and Vintage thread work completely different.

                Like Ying and Yang,.

                Please educate yourself and look at the sewing on the HOARD.


                Then look at lorenzos fake helmet covers.

                Use your eyes and study how vintage cloth and sewing marry together.

                Then look at Lorenzos fake covers, what will pop out is the sewing.........you will notice the thickness of the thread, you will notice the micro white puffs around the sewing holes where the modern thread pierces the vintage fabric, you will notice the automatic even spaced sewing holes, you will notice the uniformity in Lorenzos covers.

                Lorenzos covers are all similar but slightly different but similar.
                The wash is simply put cheesy.
                The cloth changes.
                The sewing is similar.
                The contrived tan thread is consistent with the fake paying NO attention to age.

                I am only scratching the surface with the con that numbers over 50 covers.

                owen

                Comment

                  #143
                  Originally posted by Palmenmuster View Post
                  Fritz, I think this is a relevant question, do you share Owens opinion about this ?
                  Tom
                  I will answer your questions in another thread. In this thread here such questions only work as harassing fire.

                  Cheers

                  Comment

                    #144
                    Here is possible to see different threads, used to stitching the helmet covers, different in color, thickness and expecially in percentage of cotton rajon, for exemple early cover used for the most good cotton thread, same of the used for the zeltbahn manifacture, later war helmet covers were normally stitched with fieldgrey or tan uniform thread or rajon and how is possible to notice in the picture bellow a mix of three threads were employed for the constrution of this cover, the dark brown in full rajon composition...
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                      #145
                      Here is clearly showed a cover with well evident the puffs of the stitching, done evidentment with a needle bigger compared with the plot of the texture.
                      This cover is a nice exemple from the member Horsetrainer batch, if you take the time to examine his thread and take a loock at the whole pictures there , almost all this helmet covers have this detail in the stitching method, but some dont have.
                      So my logical opinion is that more stitching machines were working on this covers and different needle used. Is pretty clear also that a stitching chain were made to manifacture this later war helmet covers, were, EACH worker have his stitching machine and all of them his needle and his trhread, you can see clearly this difference by the different thread color used in the manifacture the covers, a nice exemple of the later war chain manifacture.
                      - Well, so different hands on a cover and different stile of stitching.
                      -IMPORTANT, Prewar, early war and midwar helmet covers HAVE for sure, examining all exemples knowed, not just mine or from collection of my friend, you will notice they were made by ONLY A HAND, so if you examine all original exemples, were you want, books, collection etc... your will see clearly this fact, same style of stitching in all cover, the asemblation were done by the same worker, with same thread and style, for sure this is the motivation of the better and accurate construction of early/mid war helmet covers.
                      Nobody can say when the exchange happened in the production of the camouflage garments, I think probable with the increase of the Waffen SS division ( end of the war saw almost a milion man in SS Uniform) and the employ of the concentration/work camp inmates, in fact the products deteriorate sensiblement in quality of manifacture, not just in the texture, that of course happened.
                      Of course is possible found second pattern helmet covers with foilage loops well done, depend the productor and time frame of manifacture.
                      Last edited by Lorenz; 01-28-2016, 05:51 AM.

                      Comment

                        #146
                        Some details about Prato.
                        It was one of the most important European wool (and other materials used to make dresses) recycling center... gears finish there from all Italian cities but also from Europe and outside.

                        There were found all sort of german gears, also complete tunics (hundreds of hundreds) and thousands and thousands piece of cloth, of tunics, of pants ,of cammo in rolls or pieces. I have personally (and usually i give as gift when i sold something) 50/60 pieces of zelth coming from Prato. Cutted in button holes zone (recycling time reasons) but also in other parts.

                        In my town there was a man who collect wool, divided materials and bring to Prato. After war his business was: collect metals and cloth and recycle it.
                        Metals in engineering workshops, Cloth to Prato. There was also a nickname for these people "stracciaroli" sounds like "tatters men"

                        About materials, just a little note: few weeks ago surfaced a piece of DOT roll made in Italy. With a unique back... (front the same). Unfortunately only 83,5 cm x 25 cm so i can't mesaure circumference.

                        Fortunately there is the full information of contractor.

                        This is my note cause not all could be catalogued closely.

                        now i come back to read the discussion.

                        Comment

                          #147
                          Ok, Fritz and with this? I liked and I like them, what is the problem? you dont like?
                          Each collector buy and collect what he like, if is not sure about the originality before buy show the pieces to friends or forum to know other opinions.
                          We all are not obligated to buy something, I also over the years I was asking the WAF opinions before buy something and was really of help.



                          Originally posted by Fritz View Post
                          Oh no!

                          Let me help you out: I remember clearly that the blurred edge and the cover came from you as Peter contacted me about them back then.

                          Comment

                            #148
                            Originally posted by viva_giulio View Post
                            Some details about Prato.

                            There were found all sort of german gears, also complete tunics (hundreds of hundreds) and thousands and thousands piece of cloth, of tunics, of pants ,of cammo in rolls or pieces.
                            .
                            That is irrelevant. What matters here is if these fakes have come from Prato. I would think they did not.

                            The stories I was told were that things either came from Bozen, Austria or Prato. Outright fakes were labeled as having been found in Prato's recycling facility. That is the point.

                            Comment

                              #149
                              Originally posted by Lorenz View Post
                              you dont like?

                              That's an understatement!

                              It is not that I think they are fake, I know they are fake.

                              Comment

                                #150
                                Originally posted by Fritz View Post
                                I will answer your questions in another thread. In this thread here such questions only work as harassing fire.

                                Cheers
                                No, Its all about facts and knowledge. I really hope the forum members are openminded and read all the posts and do some research. I have no dog in this, I have never bought items from Lorenzo, Owen or Fritz.
                                Tom

                                Comment

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