SS Camo Regs

[KMC1945]

Ok so this is a question that has always perplexed me because I never have seemed to be able to find a solid answer. The question is quite simple: were there any regulations dictating the uniform combinations that SS troops (or Wehrmacht, for that matter) were allowed to wear? As an Army vet myself, it was downright criminal to be 'out of uniform' at a given time. But it seems like every SS photo you see, each man is wearing whatever the hell he wanted. It seems difficult for me to think that the German 'culture of efficiency' officially permitted this. I get it. It was combat. But there has to have been SOME rule. Even if it wasn't followed. Anyone know anything on this? This would also help the living history/reenacting aspect, as well.

Danke!

Kyle

[cbuehler]

Of course there were regulations governing what they were "supposed" to wear that generally seemed to be followed in the early war years, but later this was abandoned in the field.
The Germans were in desperate straights by 1944 and used whatever they had. This is particulary so with the WSS.
With regard to camo, quality control and uniformity was almost non existant towards the end of the war due to the exigencies of the war.

CB

[Erik]

To demand uniformity all need to have the described uniforms available to them in the first place. No use in forbidding soldiers to combine camo tunics with field gray pants for example, if half of them never got camo trousers or had worn them out. If you look at pictures from the Polish and Western campaign in '39 and '40 most soldiers look well equipped and uniform. Compare these with pictures from later war years. A big difference.

Erik

[brooksbz]

Yes the Wehrmacht had regulations, but not like the ones that you are probably familiar with. The Heer, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine regulations were more formalized than the SS.

[KMC1945]

Interesting points. I realize they were desperate. It makes sense that command stopped caring what guys wore. Especially once logistics broke down. So technically, any possible combination is correct?

[cbuehler]

Any possible combination would be correct. To take it to an extreme, Otto Skorzeny mentions in his book that even US jackets (presumably the M43) were sometimes worn by men who could get them as they were so much better than anything they had.
Virtually everything the US had in field equipment was vastly superior for that matter.
If you study SS smocks, they were a hodge podge of shoddily printed and constructed material, particularly so with the later production types. Early ones were a bit better, but few have survived.

CB

[KMC1945]

Thank you very much for the insight, CB! All good info

Kyle

[kammo man]

Any possible combination would be correct. To take it to an extreme, Otto Skorzeny mentions in his book that even US jackets (presumably the M43) were sometimes worn by men who could get them as they were so much better than anything they had.
Virtually everything the US had in field equipment was vastly superior for that matter.
If you study SS smocks, they were a hodge podge of shoddily printed and constructed material, particularly so with the later production types. Early ones were a bit better, but few have survived.

CB

what are you talking about ?
Have you ever handled a mint SS camouflage pullover ?
There is nothing Hodge podge about them.
Your above statement makes no sense.

[Ian Hulley]

Otto Skorzeny mentions in his book that even US jackets (presumably the M43) were sometimes worn by men who could get them as they were so much better than anything they had.

That's probably an attempt to justify his 'commandos' using U.S. uniforms.

Ian

[cbuehler]

what are you talking about ?
Have you ever handled a mint SS camouflage pullover ?
There is nothing Hodge podge about them.
Your above statement makes no sense.

Have you ever seen a second pattern SS smock? Of course I am being facetious, but they are exactly as I mentioned.

CB

[brooksbz]

SS items were regulated just like other services, but they were procured and regulated in a different manner. In my experience SS items are generally well tailored and manufactured. The tailoring is less standardized than equivalent items found in other services. SS items often exhibit more variety of materials in a single garment. Sometimes production quality is an issue. Sewing mistakes are common. In general, I would not describe them as inferior as they may have been described above.

Scott Pritchett has a good overview of the SS procurement and production processes in volume 3 in his wrap series. My comments were meant to express the the fact that period examples of SS garment clothing procurement (specs and standards) and uniform regulations have not been discovered to date. The Wehrmacht regulations are summarized below as paraphrased from a very well respected collector friend:

------------------------------

Look for documents, published weekly during the war identified as:

(1) “Heeres-Verordnungsblatt” (Army Regulations Magazine),

For instance, the Edelweiß authorized by H. Vb.-21. Jahrgang – Teil B – 28. Ausgabe – Berlin, 11 Mai 1939 (Blatt 10 – Seite 134 - Nr. 196)

(2) “Allemeine Heeresmitteilungen” (General Army Information (newspaper)

For example Panzer uniforms are authorized as follows:

HM 34, No 85 dtd 12 November 1934
HM 41, No 64 dtd 15 January 1941
HM 41, No 277 dtd 07 March 1941
HM 43B, No 352 dtd 11 June 1943

As a point of clarity, these documents were intended to inform line officers of changes to clothing orders being implemented in the Army. So these were authorization documents, not sewing directions.

Question: “Hey, who says you can wear a black uniform?”

Answer: “HM no 86, 12 November 1934 authorizes wear of the black panzer uniform etc.”

(3) Clothing changes and directions were disseminated in: “Uniformen-Markt”. This publication was published in Berlin from 1933 to 1945. They published an edition once every two weeks documenting all 0f the changes observed in the other two publications. E.g., Here you read about how to sew an Edelweiß on to the sleeve, (16 cm from sleeve seam). Uniformen Markt was a must have if you were an industry partner providing uniforms to the German Army.

I hope this helps.