SS Honor Ring - opinions needed

[Gary Symonds]

The die flaws that are depicted in this ring, are flaws found on every original 40s honor ring.

Post #3, at the rear of the ring at top of the circle between the arrow on the right and the rune on the left, are two very small horizonal cuts, separate from each other. At the bottom of the circle below the two runes, is a long protruding horizonal line. Hard to see in this picture, but is there.

Post #4, the right triangle rune panel is full of die flaws. At the bottom of the triangle is a trough like thick indentation that travels from the edge of the left side to about 80% across the bottom towards the right side of the triangle. To the right side of the rune, about half way up, will be observed a tiny protruding horizonal line. At the top apex of the triangle will be observed two separate small horizonal cuts.

The bottom picture of post #4 shows the "Hagal" or star rune. Look at the area between the 12 o'clock arm and the 2 o'clock arm of the star. A small horizonal cut will be observed.

Post #3, There are craters in the eye sockets of the skulls on original rings. Though they are hard to see, there are craters or depressions in these eye sockets.

It would be entirely possible to make a reproduction ring that could easily copy these die flaw found on all original 40s honor ring. However, the copy would have its own die flaws, which since such flaws never existed on an original ring, would be a dead giveaway. Anybody including Don Boyle who knew what he was looking at would instantly see that the "perfect copy", was easily spotted.

Comments?

[Gaspare]

my comment.. every die flaw described is on any good copy HR from the last 10 years.

[Gary Symonds]

my comment.. every die flaw described is on any good copy HR from the last 10 years.

Any good casting of an original honor ring will obviously copy the die flaws. Please observe that the die flaws in the subject ring are sharp and crisp. A casting would not be the same.

Gaspare, if you can post a picture of an example of a non-cast copy with these die flaws, please post them for the education of the membership.

Never mind, I just realized you are not an Association Member and cannot post pictures. Oh well.

[Gaspare]

"Oh well?" that supposed to be a dig? , you got the wrong guy Gary... You think that in this day and age they can't make a exact copy or any of this stuff we collect? There;s a craftsman in Warsaw that has been making flawless copies of SWB and GAB since the mid 90s. This stuff is nothing when compared to making a piston or a gear for a out of production motorcycle /car for just one example.
- anyway,,,
The Honor Ring forum is free to join and post photos. We have 50 back pages of HRs and private purchase if anyone would like to view, there is also the German Fundforums rings section as well as a Russian ring forum.

In the mid 90s a Russian jeweler decided to make 20 copies HRs. Very nice copies, hand engraved inside, die flaws. I had one for years and sold it to a European member here a few years ago as a wearer for himself.

There is a member on GDC and pretty sure he's a member here. He reproduces the HR pretty dam close using what some say it the method that was used. He cut a die and die presses them. No they are not exact and he meant for them not to be.
3D image, special scanners etc. just be happy that they're making money other ways then deciding to use their expensive equipment to copy HRs....

[Gary Symonds]

"Oh well?" that supposed to be a dig? , you got the wrong guy Gary... You think that in this day and age they can't make a exact copy or any of this stuff we collect? There;s a craftsman in Warsaw that has been making flawless copies of SWB and GAB since the mid 90s. This stuff is nothing when compared to making a piston or a gear for a out of production motorcycle /car for just one example.
- anyway,,,
The Honor Ring forum is free to join and post photos. We have 50 back pages of HRs and private purchase if anyone would like to view, there is also the German Fundforums rings section as well as a Russian ring forum.

In the mid 90s a Russian jeweler decided to make 20 copies HRs. Very nice copies, hand engraved inside, die flaws. I had one for years and sold it to a European member here a few years ago as a wearer for himself.

There is a member on GDC and pretty sure he's a member here. He reproduces the HR pretty dam close using what some say it the method that was used. He cut a die and die presses them. No they are not exact and he meant for them not to be.
3D image, special scanners etc. just be happy that they're making money other ways then deciding to use their expensive equipment to copy HRs....

Gaspare, it is a minor dig in a way. We are all trying to learn to avoid repro rings. You make a sweeping statement about copies including the die flaws that I have pointed out that are on original rings.

How does it help the membership if you cannot post pictures of the examples that you are describing that are to be avoided?

The die flaws that I have pointed out are like fingerprints for identification. If I am wrong, than I would love to have my opinion corrected by photographic evidence. You have asserted in good faith that I am wrong. I'm really ok with that. But the burden is on you to prove it, equally in good faith.

Unless you can post pictures as a full member, your opinion is only a conclusion, without the backing of evidence.

I truly would very much desire to see the rings that you have described. If you have these pictures, how about sending them to a member who can post them?

[phild]

There are a few things that must be realized when evaluating a HR:

Not every example is identical and by that I do no mean due to wear, size, name/date engraving or even the date it was made.

Rings had varying degrees of hand finishing and sometimes this work slightly changes details or even can erase some tiny characteristics

The die used in making these (or molds for some folks) wore as well. Each pressing (or casting for some) was not 100% as every other pressing.

I have seen the detail of the flaws as well as the background stippling vary quite a bit on verified original rings in near mint condition and from the same year! In some cases the background stippling is almost un-detectable and the die flaws can range in sharpness and depth as well.


The one thing that I can say about these rings is that I believe at least is that if you own and study an actual original, the fakes will stand out.


I do not believe that an HR can be judged using the exact standards that say a coin is judged (many try and do anyway) but even so I will say that mint coins of the same mint and year vary as well.....some strikes are sharper.....just a fact of manufacturing.

[Gaspare]

no burden on me.. You asked for a comment and I gave one. And, I reiterate, if you think these rings and medals/badges and such can't be perfectly or near perfectly copied you only fooling yourself. IF your happy with your authentications then great, enjoy your rings..