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**MadMax17** · 02-26-2014, 04:22 PM

Wouldn't "SS 3" have been "Der Fuhrer"?

**Robert H** · 02-26-2014, 04:28 PM

Quite early tab I think.
Pol. Bereitschaft as well but different pattern.

**jimt** · 02-26-2014, 05:51 PM

Pb 3

Mark Its the second pattern of the "PB" Saschen unit maybe issued 2-6 months after the first pattern collar tab , 1934, which had a very large numeral 3 , bigger than the runics , , its the collar tab for the KZ saschen camp, very rare acually almost impossible to find . Would love to see the whole picture..

**Mark C. Yerger** · 02-26-2014, 07:25 PM

Thanks JIMT

Thanks, I assumed it was specific for Sturmbann at Saschen as image is for an officer there, presume others with different numbers (same style) are for other camps circa starting March 1935 for the tab created as man shown promoted to rank in Feb 1935, promoted next that September. Didn't know would be for all the PRD, thought just Sonderkommando to III./SS-Totenkopfsturmbann "Sachsen." I have a lot more changes/unit re-numbering, etc than anything in Angolia, part of a chapter in the Totenkopf German Cross holders volume covering Wachtruppe through the Totenkopfstandarten and SS-HD until early October 1939.

Photo will be in it, large as it's crystal clear but prefer to wait. Every time I post some moron steals it, puts it everywhere as if their own. Lots of numbered tabs among the 400+ photos, both Roman and Arabic. This one of several, same period also have different numbers, that interested me because resembled later "Deutschland" and easy to miss ID time period if man unknown or photo not clear (this one a studio portrait).

Seems regs, as always, often ignored even with "Totenkopf." Men of "Totenkopf" Division where wearing the skull sleeve title supposedly for former members of "Oberbayern" only, generally its personnel going to SS-Totenkopf-Infanterie-Regiment 1. But have photos of dozens of men in the book who were never in "Oberbayern," many never even in the Totenkopfverbände, but transferred in wartime to the Division, wearing the skull title. They did as they pleased for looks. So much for any tunic "guaranteed" to be owned by a former member of "Oberbayern." Same as those who think everyone in "Prinz Eugen" wore that model Army sword (totally a dealer price boosting myth), or the never existed SS "officer candidate" swords created from parts.

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**derek** · 02-26-2014, 08:50 PM

Just to clarify, Jim and Robert are absolutely right that the collar patch is for Politische Bereitschaft 3. That unit never achieved its intended militaristic function and many of the members were assigned to various camps. As Sonderkommando Sachsen they did indeed guard Sachsenburg concentration camp but the PB SS3 patch was also worn at the Lichtenburg camp by the men assigned there.
So, the tab is strictly speaking not for Totenkopfsturmbann Sachsen as by the time its predecessor, Wachtruppe Sachsen, was established in 1935 the patches had been universally changed to the skull pattern. It is most likely that the picture was taken in early 1935 which would fit Mark's promotion date.
Derek

**jimt** · 02-26-2014, 09:11 PM

a closer look

Mark, its as follows for the entire Pol. Bereitschaft, circa 1933 -1935
1. All PB units started out with just a blank collar tab ,1933
2. then a small runics collar tab
3. smaller runes and large numeral , very quickly going to smaller numeral pattern as you pictured .
a. runes with large one, very quickly changing to the runes/ small numeral 1,
later on this became the nucleus of the Deutschland Standarte,
b. Runes / large 2 , then runes/ smaller numeral 2, which became nucleus of Germania Standarte.
c. runes and small 4 , this unit was short lived was commanded by PB 2 in Hamburg
d. runes large 3 & later runes / small 3 , for Saschen concentration camp
This collar tab evolution was over with in less than two years and maybe in a year and one half, and at times you can see them wearing a mixture of the patterns in the same picture , see also Mollo's volume 3 for a more detailed understanding .

**derek** · 02-26-2014, 09:33 PM

Jim knows his stuff and is correct in every detail except one tiny one.
d. runes and 3 (large and small) were worn at Sachsenburg and Lichtenburg by Sonderkommando Sachsen.
It would appear that at Hohnstein concentration camp Sonderkommando Sachsen wore the plain runes, probably because they were only there very early on from June to September 1934, after which the camp was closed.
Derek

**Robert H** · 02-27-2014, 05:39 AM

It's a small Group of collectors that know those matters... in Germany I know none.

Cheers,
Robert

**RD Rygaard** · 02-27-2014, 06:22 AM

Enjoy!

Attached Files

101_2919.jpg (31.9 KB, 331 views)

**MadMax17** · 02-27-2014, 10:00 PM

The depth of knowledge on this forum never ceases to amaze! Very impressive!

**Mark C. Yerger** · 03-01-2014, 01:34 AM

It was of interest for me, having date of ranks, etc as seems few had the money for a professional portrait early as he did. Normally that early are from IDs, like the one below signed to me by later Swords holder Otto Baum. There must have been a photo special later as everyone I'm covering seems to have had a portrait done, the second being another later KC I'll have complete in the book.

Attached Files

**Robert H** · 03-01-2014, 02:00 AM

Great photos, great tunics.
Never came a long such a PB tunic or insignia.

**Mark C. Yerger** · 03-01-2014, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by Robert H View Post

Great photos, great tunics.
Never came a long such a PB tunic or insignia.

One reason added to rarity besides being few as well as early, told to me by Baum, was re-using tabs after removing letters/numbers. He did so with the below (posted somewhere before) and have seen numerous others. Same with the "home made" Ust. tab, not what I'd expect. They were costly to buy new when one could use what they already owned. But I've published dozens similar; EM tabs with pips added and no piping, etc.

Rather amazing they kept up (Totenkopfverbände) with so many unit numbering/structure changes in a short time period as mentioned before (months only). But have seen posts by Robert and others of many rare things I never even found someone in a photo with them because to few, short time span, etc

Attached Files

Mailler-Baum-Ustb.jpg (54.1 KB, 212 views)

**Robert H** · 03-02-2014, 04:54 AM

absolutely right Mark.
Here is one 36 dated tab with removed number or letter.

Attached Files

removed 1.jpg (161.9 KB, 175 views)

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Totekopfsturmnbann script 3 reg ?

Totekopfsturmnbann script 3 reg ?

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