ss off feldbinde

[steiner68]

I have seen two ss polizei feldbinden, it was diffrerent.

This one is a waffen ss feldbinde

[JoeW]

I have seen two ss polizei feldbinden, it was diffrerent.

This one is a waffen ss feldbinde

Again I ask, does anyone have the order establishing the VT/Waffen-SS Feldbinde? How is the color green established to be different from the green of the SS-Polizei Offiziere Feldinden? Does Mollo cite it in his volumes on the VT/Waffen SS?

I have owned four or five over the years and still own two. They were all the same, but came with police officer buckles. I have a difficult time accepting that in 1939 the SS created two different color backings for officers of the two services.

[DougO]

I have owned a number of these brocade belts. A number of them have color and material variations in the backing material. Some are lighter green, while others are darker green. The one that I got via a picker that was purchased from the family (as opposed to others that I bought from collectors) had a police buckle and a very dark green background, exactly like the one shown at the beginning of this thread.
My opinion is that the differences observed in shades of green on the backing are manufacturer differences, rather than a specific color for WSS vs. Police.
Just my 2 cents and observations,
Doug

[klr]

I think there is a difference in the backing from Police to Waffen SS. Take another example. The SS runes patch worn by SS members in the Police is on Police green wool. The Waffen SS pocket Runes are on a lighter colored wool. You can also find dark blue backed SS brocades that were worn by Water Police officers. If Water Police have their own color backing why wouldn't regular Police.

Kirby

[derek]

Joe,
I would be more than happy to look through some material to see if I can find any relevant material to answer your question. Do you have an exact date for the introduction of the SS-Feldbinde?
Derek

[DougO]

Take another example. The SS runes patch worn by SS members in the Police is on Police green wool. The Waffen SS pocket Runes are on a lighter colored wool.
Kirby

Really, was there a specific order stating that? Your statement makes it sound like an accepted fact.
Doug

[JoeW]

I think there is a difference in the backing from Police to Waffen SS. Take another example. The SS runes patch worn by SS members in the Police is on Police green wool. The Waffen SS pocket Runes are on a lighter colored wool. You can also find dark blue backed SS brocades that were worn by Water Police officers. If Water Police have their own color backing why wouldn't regular Police.
Kirby

As Doug wrote above, the SS-Pol Feldbinde can be found in makers variations of the green backing. The order creating that belt specified only the green backing and blue for Water Police. As pointed out on the Best & Buckle forum, Angolia wrote years ago of a difference but provided no evidence.

Joe,
I would be more than happy to look through some material to see if I can find any relevant material to answer your question. Do you have an exact date for the introduction of the SS-Feldbinde?
Derek

Thank you Derek. I can only imagine it occurred when the SS-VT went to non-black uniforms. Mollo mentions 1939 in his volume as the date of a brocade, but gave no citation. I can see SS-VT in parade situations wearing the SS-Feldbinde with black backing, but was there a Paradeanzug after they adopted the grey-green uniforms?

[derek]

Joe,
I know that when I was really active in the hobby it was certainly felt by SS specialist collectors that the green backed belt was for the police and the black backed belt was for the SS.
If you look in the 1941 Kleiderkasse catalogue it lists them side by side.

Article 246 SS-Feldbinde mit Schloss. 6.80
Article 247 Polizeifeldbinde mit Schloss. 6.80

Not conclusive I know but makes me think it was likely.
Derek

[steiner68]

I remember the angolia's book :

Black : A-ss
Green : wss and polizei.

[derek]

The problem with Angolia's books is that they rarely support their infomration with documentation. What does the book base it on?
Derek

[JoeW]

I remember the angolia's book :

Black : A-ss
Green : wss and polizei.

Actually your memory is faulty. Angolia wrote that the Allgemeine SS was black and the Waffen SS was green, but the Polizei was grey/field grey. And we know that is incorrect.

The problem with Angolia's books is that they rarely support their infomration with documentation. What does the book base it on?
Derek

Of course you are correct Derek. The only citation Angolia provides for the SS and Polizei Feldbinden is an order for the earlier police brocade with red and black stripes on aluminum color with green backing. He provides no citation for his information on the SS Feldbinde or the SS-Polizei Feldbinde.

Derek, I was incorrect about the date Mollo cited. He wrote in the SS-VT volume that the SS-Feldbinde was adopted 1937/38. But fortunately you found in your archives a circular notification that the SS-Feldbinde that was adopted April 20 1938. The notice provides no description of the colors, but instead the manner in which it was to be worn by officers of the Allgemeine-SS (who were awarded he SS-Degen), SS-VT, SS-TK and SS-Junkerschulen. Now I am not an expert in SS uniforms, but at this time I believe that in most circumstances the SS uniform was black, thus logically requiring a black backing on the SS-Feldbinde.

Still we lack any evidence of an SS-Feldbinde being issued specifically for the Waffen-SS, the successor to the SS-VT. As as start, is there photo evidence of an SS-Feldbinde being worn with the Waffen-SS uniform?

[JoeW]

I found another reference to an SS brocade belt for the Waffen SS in the Roger Bender/HP Taylor reference book "Uniforms & Organization of the Waffen SS, Vol 1". But it only mentions that officers could wear the standard SS brocade belt with round buckle. A photo was shown that seems to picture the standard Allgemeine SS Feldbinde as the backing is very dark/black looking in the black and white photo.

[JoeW]

I found an "example" of an SS-Feldbinde with grey back on page 88 of Art Hayes' book on SS collectibles. Well, it is the only example I have found. Does anyone know of another?

[derek]

Obviously the problem with drawing conclusions from these existing examples is that only the keeper is actually affixed to the belt. The buckle itself is loose and so either version can be put on the belt.
To me the simplest and most obvious conclusion is this:
The brocade belt exists in two forms. One has black backing and one has green backing.
The official catalogue issued by the supply counter for both branches lists two belts; one for the SS and one for the police.
Logic tells me the black is for members of the SS and the green is for use by the police according to their dress uniform colours.
Derek

[JoeW]

Obviously the problem with drawing conclusions from these existing examples is that only the keeper is actually affixed to the belt. The buckle itself is loose and so either version can be put on the belt.
To me the simplest and most obvious conclusion is this:
The brocade belt exists in two forms. One has black backing and one has green backing.
The official catalogue issued by the supply counter for both branches lists two belts; one for the SS and one for the police.
Logic tells me the black is for members of the SS and the green is for use by the police according to their dress uniform colours.
Derek

I agree with you Derek. My efforts at finding a "Waffen-SS" version were in the end ultimately to dismiss it as fabrication.