Maker Mark on possible mother's Brooch - resembles Gahr style

[Capt. R]

Here is an interesting item that I thought we could discuss. Maybe I have something rare and maybe not. I have never personally seen anything like this but my immediate thought is that it is good. I have done some preliminary consulting on this piece with a couple of people whose judgment I trust and I have had mixed opinions. I have accepted that it is not a Gahr piece but could it be a contracted Gahr piece? or a proto-type? Does anyone else have anything like this in their collections? PMs are always great if you do not want to publicly make a posting. Determining the hallmark on this will go a long way toward finding something out. Maybe it can tell the maker and country of origin.

This piece came out of the woodwork unexpectedly and as soon as I saw it, my immediate thought was "BUY THIS!" It is obviously handmade and does not have the quality of a Gahr brooch but it definitely shares the same "arms" as a Gahr mother's brooch and the central motif is like so many other cultural historical examples as well as the Wewelsburg sonnenrad and looks like a documented WHW design. The central bezel is hammered gold possibly plated. The silver is not marked as such but is tarnished and has obvious age to it. The reverse side shows the type of clasp we like to see on these and has that "elegant" style to it.

So, with all that said, I let's talk about this interesting Brooch!

[Capt. R]

Whw

here is the TR period WHW pattern

[Capt. R]

more examples

[Capt. R]

more

[Capt. R]

another

[Capt. R]

Hallmark on Gahr type brooch

Here is the hallmark...

any help is really appreciated.

[Thorsten B.]

Like in any other field of fine arts within the Third Reich a new germanic style and design became popular and - pending on the skills and knowledge about the look of these old brooches as archetypes - period masters within their artistic fields developed new examples.

There were surely more and other jewelers than Karolina Gahr and her firm - just not as exclusively pushed by the NS officials.

Here is another example of that: A period silber brooch identical to one of the Gahr brooches but just not made by Gahr.

Instead it is marked as being a product of a skillful jeweler in the city of Treuburg far in the eastern part of the Reich.

[Stossgruppe3]

That's a very nice broach you show in the first thread Don .....
I have two silver broaches with the same fixing device on the back but these items are Islamic.
I'll get some shots sorted out and post them for you.
Tell me just how rare are these Gahr broaches ?
I have never actually seen one for sale ?
Regards
David

[Capt. R]

thanks to everyone who commented and sent PM's so far.

The photos I took do not do the piece justice. The camera flash does not help the presentation of the brooch. The gold color on the central bezel is muted and does not look good in the photos I took. Also it is very difficult to photo the maker's mark since it is so small.

I did look at the mark under a magnifying loupe and there is an arrow and a single sieg-rune within the mark. Interesting the use of the arrow which is similar to the sunwheel swastika brooch sold by Craig Gottlieb now owned by DMV. Also interesting the use of the sigrune in the mark.

I am still trying to determine the exact maker and the research is always on-going, so please continue to write to me with info if you find anything.

One interesting thing that I read in a Wewelsburg publication concerning the brooches in their collection was the presence of a Hagal rune in these brooches. If you imagine the arms extending behind the central sonnenrad disk, it can be seen as a 8 armed hagal rune. Just something I thought I would mention as I never saw that before and do not know if it was purposeful - just an interesting perspective I wanted to mention.

[Thorsten B.]

To explain it I use your picture here:

The Gahr brooch in the middle is the one with the Hagal rune design.

It was the one Himmler presented to his wife as the prototype of an SS mother brooch and the one Rudi Brandt mentioned in his letter to Karolina Gahr asking for possibilities and prices producing a similar germanic brooch and introduce it as the SS mother brooch.

[Stossgruppe3]

To explain it I use your picture here:

The Gahr brooch in the middle is the one with the Hagal rune design.

It was the one Himmler presented to his wife as the prototype of an SS mother brooch and the one Rudi Brandt mentioned in his letter to Karolina Gahr asking for possibilities and prices producing a similar germanic brooch and introduce it as the SS mother brooch.

Never actually seen one let alone 3 of them like that ...
Regards
David

[Capt. R]

here is another mother's brooch but it is different pattern around the center portion than what is shown above. I think this one was sold by HH.

[Michael Fay]

Don , I hope your item is what you hope it is.
-I don't know, but
I have a suspicion that more than just the first item shown in this thread are not authentic Gahr items ...or even made before 1945 by any other supplier.

There are 2 members who have NOT shared(who still do occasionally) who I would be interested in hearing their thoughts. I hope they do share on all the items shown.

Finally, I will repeat what I have said before about the so-called "Wewelsburg Sonnenrad " or commonly called "The Black Sun." In many circles it is a symbol that has been known to be reproduced in multiple kinds of things, metal pendants, rings, wood plates, wood altars, metal altars, and on t-shirt designs.

This symbol is known by everybody out there who makes modern 'NS and SS type' kunst und kitsch.

[Capt. R]

Res ipsa loquitor

yes, I am more than well aware of the plethora of black sun items in existence.

From my examination of this piece over the past few days, I can definitely report that this brooch is certainly NOT anything like that.

This brooch came out of nowhere with no marketing of being an SS item or a cultural item of any kind.

It may not be a Gahr piece, but it is still an SS Mother's or SS wives Brooch, in my opinion, likely from the 1930's.

The overall elegance and beauty of the piece speaks to me as a very special and significant item of nordische blutserbe.

The hallmark contains an obvious sig-rune and an arrow, so it is certainly a nordic creation with age to it.

I welcome more input from collectors with these hiding in their cabinets!

Just look at the beauty of this image and it is obvious: (res ipsa loquitor)

[Michael Fay]

If it speaks for itself lets ask it some questions

yes, I am more than well aware of the plethora of black sun items in existence.

From my examination of this piece over the past few days, I can definitely report that this brooch is certainly NOT anything like that.

This brooch came out of nowhere with no marketing of being an SS item or a cultural item of any kind.

It may not be a Gahr piece, but it is still an SS Mother's or SS wives Brooch, in my opinion, likely from the 1930's.

The overall elegance and beauty of the piece speaks to me as a very special and significant item of nordische blutserbe.

The hallmark contains an obvious sig-rune and an arrow, so it is certainly a nordic creation with age to it.

I welcome more input from collectors with these hiding in their cabinets!

Just look at the beauty of this image and it is obvious: (res ipsa loquitor)

ahhh, I did not mean that it is on same level as the stuff usually put out since 1990 or so...

So why can it not be from pre-Nazi and pre-30's?-I don't know that it is pre -Nazi , but it is a real possibility (and for me would still make it desirable).

On another thought : while I like the maker mark(I cant see it, your image is to fuzzy for my eyes, so will believe you that there is a true Sig rune), I can not see how it would be impossible (in theory) for someone who could make a modern 'Gahr like' fake could not design and stamp any maker's mark they want.