Himmler Command Flag sells at Auction

[mrcrtm]

I see the Himmler Command Flag sold at Poulins Auctions for $22,230. Authenticated by Bill Shea and suposedly the only one known.

[Stossgruppe3]

Can you supply any photos ..... ?
Regards
David

[der-hase-fee]

Can you supply any photos ..... ?
Regards
David

[Ian Hulley]

Unless that thing came with 100% provenance and a signed letter from Der Treue Heini himself I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole ... and I don't care WHO 'authenticated' it

Ian

[PHILBROWN]

i have to agree ian, it needs OFW on the case, it looks lacking in detail to say the least

[beufighter]

looks like the same sort of thing you can find on ioffer how can it be authenicated are there more than 1

[PMan]

Command Flag

Nice, obvious original piece shown in post #3. By-the-way, that's not Himmler's command flag.

[Bob Hritz]

A lovely original.

Bob Hritz

[PHILBROWN]

Nice, obvious original piece shown in post #3. By-the-way, that's not Himmler's command flag.

hi peter whys it obvious? im just trying to work out why its so dire in detail , even the wing tips dont match, any pointers to why its 100%

[Bob Hritz]

Phil,

The first pattern Himmler flags have a different eagle. During wartime, all the Himmler flags were standardized by using the same eagle as found on all SS command flags. Himmler's flag was square.

I have attached a quick photo of Himmlers podium or opera box flag and an automobile command flag. As you can see, the same type of eagle, in both style and munufacture was used, along with the proper gray border for the large command flags.

Himmler's first pattern command flag is still in existance as I have seen it in hand.

Does anyone know the measurements of the sold command flag?

Bob Hritz

[PHILBROWN]

thanks for the time in posting a reply for me bob, if the 2nd pattern is so naive ,what tells it apart from a fake? have these been faked, im most interested in this thread and im eager to learn more of these, thanks

[oldflagswanted]

Imo ...

Unless that thing came with 100% provenance and a
signed letter from Der Treue Heini himself I wouldn't touch
it with a barge pole ... and I don't care WHO 'authenticated' it
Ian

IH:
Always prudent to be skeptical about high priced items.
But in this case, IMO, the proverbial ten foot pole is not
needed, but affording the barge to stand on is the problem.
OFW

i have to agree ian, it needs OFW on the case, it looks lacking
in detail to say the least

PB:
I'm late to this WAF party , but it was a pleasure to
see the post #10 example photos by Bob Hritz.
Flag in question looks OK to me, based on the material
and construction look, & ~60x60cm OFW scaled size.
OFW

...any photos ..... ?
Regards
David

OLDFLAGSWANTED
......
(My Gladiator Eagle)
***************
As noted online ...
Lot 1369: PERSONAL COMMAND FLAG FOR HEINRICH HIMMLER.
Description: This incredibly rare piece is the only known example of its kind; a line illustration of it appears in
the book entitled Uniforms, Organization and History of the Waffen-SS (Volume One) by Bender. This incredible
flag is the military type comprised of geometric shapes - in this case, two sets of triangles that meet at the tips
(looking similar to an hourglass); one set (black) is vertical, while the other set is horizontal. The triangles are
made of a smooth textured cloth. The flag is double-sided. On each side, superimposed over the center, is an
incredible flatwire bullion SS eagle with a wingspan measuring 15.25" long. The feathers and outline are highlighted
in black cord and it is a very impressive piece of work! The flag is bordered with a strup of pale gray (like Reichsfuhrer
-SS cufftitle) ribbed cloth. One edge has a built-in opening and tube for running a staff through. There are a couple of
small holes in the white triangle material, most of which are near the outer edges of the flag and none are distracting.
The black material and the grey bordered cloth is untouched. The flag is a fine example of the German skill and penchant
for making superbly crafted insignia and flags- even for field use. It is also an extremely rare item directly attributable to
a specific, high level individual in the Nazi hierarchy- the Reichsfuhrer-SS himself, in front of whose field command
headquarters this flag would have been posted. In very good condition and one of- if not only- example of Himmler's
personal command flags in existence today. Extremely desirable and very collectable. Overall condition near excellent..."
Est $13,000-15,000. USD
*********************
(below) Auction listing photo.
(below-2) Auction eagle compared to BH posted opera example. OFW

[Rich Moran]

The only one, really? I have to say I think that those of us who are alive today will not really know, but those who are in their 20's will know over time if it really is the only one.

Back in the mid 80's Steve Wolfe offered one of Heni's vehicle command flags which looks to be the same size as the one Bob kindly put up for all to see.

The price at that time was 8,000.00.

Steve worked with someone to list it at Auction and it went for 12,000.00.

To see what perhaps may be the same size flag going for just over 20,000.00 is a suprise as the price seems to be too low.

Regarding rarity of these things, one has to keep in mind the Abschnitts and Uber Abschnitts had to keep himmlers command flag in each Abschnitt command headquarters, each had one JIC Heni showed up for sandwiches, beer and cards and what ever else delinquencies and mayhem he could pull on people.

What that means is Himmlers flags are more common than Abschnitt flags are because if these were not you'd not be seeing these as often as they are seen.

Someone care to show Abschnitt I through XVII?

Abschnitt XVII did reside in my collection and is now in Bob Colemans collection and with that XVII I'd never seen another.

And then how many others were there including both Uber and Abschnitt? If someone can show those in hand and not from era images one can begin to really appreciate how rare these flags really are, but Himmlers? Well......

[oldflagswanted]

about SS command flags ???

...one of Heni's vehicle command flags ...went for 12,000.00.
...Abschnitts and Uber Abschnitts had to keep himmlers command
flag in each Abschnitt command headquarters... Uber and Abschnitt...
If someone can show those in hand and not from era images one
can begin to really appreciate how rare these flags really are...

RM:
Auction flag appears to be the larger standard bearer type,
rather than the smaller (BH on right) auto fender type. On
the standard bearer carried flags, IMO these were carried
along with the command individual, unlike printed KM versions
issued to each ship. So not sure about your every U/A having
a standard bearer size SS-RF command flag on hand.
OFW
(below) t=680003 auto fender type vs. larger standard size (right).

(below-2) From 2007 WAF thread t=224068, an embroidered type.
"Allg. SS-Abschnitt (SS-Sub District) car pennant with the number
XXV for the city Dortmund/Bochum size is 35x21cm (13.78"x8.27").
The eagle is very nice done in flatwire style." Robert H. posting.
(below-3) Noted elsewhere online ...
"...Allegmeine SS car flag for Abschnitt (sub-district) XIII.
SS car flags and pennants are rare. This example features
a two-sided, silk screened, stylized SS eagle and Roman
numeral XIII indicating the sub-district. ...approximately
14"x8 ½". It is machine sewn over an aluminum plate base.
Abschitt XIII was the Alsace-Loraine area. It is encased in
plastic for its protection. It is in mint condition." $4,000
*******
FAKE ??? OFW

[Totenhead]

Phil,

The first pattern Himmler flags have a different eagle. During wartime, all the Himmler flags were standardized by using the same eagle as found on all SS command flags. Himmler's flag was square.

I have attached a quick photo of Himmlers podium or opera box flag and an automobile command flag. As you can see, the same type of eagle, in both style and munufacture was used, along with the proper gray border for the large command flags.

Himmler's first pattern command flag is still in existance as I have seen it in hand.

Does anyone know the measurements of the sold command flag?

Bob Hritz

Are those your flags Bob may I ask ?