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**nutmeg** · 09-19-2004, 06:54 PM

Let's face it. At this point if someone who "really knows" their business assembles an SS tunic using an original tunic and original insignia it will be impossible to tell if it's an original configuration. A good bet is not to pay too much over the value of the various components and you're reasonably safe.

**Glenn McInnes** · 09-19-2004, 06:59 PM

Nutmeg,
I agree 100%! Unless of course you have direct providence from the Vet whom brought it back, or you found it yourself in the attic of a German family if you are lucky enough to get them to admit they had a relative in the Waffen SS.

Glenn

**MLH13** · 09-19-2004, 07:01 PM

Hello Gents,<O

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I know for a fact that this forum has some of the best SS collecting minds anywhere and I appreciate everyone's input. I spoke to Kai about this tunic and he stands behind its authenticity 100%. Kai said there is no evidence that Heer insignia was ever on the tunic, and the SS insignia that is on the tunic are evenly worn and weathered and match perfectly to the condition and color of the tunic. Kai will give me a 30 day inspection period and he will guarantee the tunic's authenticity for 1 year. During which time he will take the tunic back with no questions asked if I am not happy with it.
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I guess the bottom line is here and it's really a no brainer...If I am going to drop a hefty sum of money on a uniform I want to ensure what I am buying is the real McCoy.<O

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**Glenn McInnes** · 09-19-2004, 07:21 PM

Well at least with a SS-BW manufactured tunic you know it was being manufactured for issue to the Waffen SS. So for me if you wanted just one SS tunic a 5 button 2 hole would be the way to go. And of course bought at the price of a stripped tunic and whatever insignia,cufftitle etc is applied. Whatever price that would be is anyone's guess I suppose.

I do know of a untouched Frundsberg SS cut assault wrapper with direct Vet providence..... asking price $25,000,USD.

Glenn

**Mark Holden** · 09-20-2004, 05:03 PM

Hi All,

As the guy who started to cast doubt on this let me explain why. IMHO the tunic is original if not a little strange in construction belt ramp holes are really far apart. I would expect 3 belt ramp holes on this tunic not 2 as a previous respondent said. The insignia looks to be original no doubt the thread that sewed the insignia is original WW2, I just do not believe that they all met up pre 1945. Its very hard to find original badged unmessed HEER tunics yet SS ones turn up fairly regularly. I admit that all the big dealers US/UK/German have pickers,networks to source good things but these are becoming too good to be true. Someone made a good point about British Battledress. Its very interesting that finding wartime originals to Infantry/Cavalry Regiments is getting very hard and the allies won!! I accept that the German armed forces had millions of men under arms but less than 1 million were in the WSS. This particular tunic is attributed to a Division almost decimated and rebuilt several times. Whilst it surrendered to the allies
we are asked to believe that untouched stocks of these tunics remained untouched for 60 years- sorry just does not ring true. As many previous answers to this thread state, if you pay the value of the insignia(whatever that may be in these days of crazy prices) and the value of a striped Heer Tunic then you are probably doing ok. This may be negative and I could well be being alarmist but caution has saved me many costly mistakes. My motto if it looks to good to be true it probably is!!

Cheers

Mark

**Scott A. Hess** · 09-30-2004, 11:04 PM

My two cents

My thoughts having wayyyyy more ARmy than SS tunics is consistent with the general consensus...I love tunic....its in my opinion a very very nice Army piece...obviously as all point out....is it a "marriage" of pieces..or original through and through.....I like the insignia.....IF and I say ONLY IF the real insignia is postwar applied with real thread... it has been done by someone who is a true artisian and knows what he is doing......these artisians I have seen..and seen their work..so this is possible..and was years ago.....but....I do like the tunic and the pieces individually..I cant comment 100percent on the LAH stitched cyphers simply becuase honestly I've never held a real set in my hands..so Idefer to those who have......the rest I like.....and...I agree..pay the price of the Heer tunic and price of the insignia if purchased seperately.which is still some do re me...figuring those boards lah white piped are rare indeed.....! LAH cufftitles are out there.the other items too...but from what I've been paying attention to over the last years is two things
1. REmmeber when a dealer couldn't GIVEAWAY an em army overcoat (makes LOTS of hats with LOTS of original lining)
2. SS insignia is being snapped up like hotcakes..even by me.....If not the tunic..then the insignia is as sexy too!

**Ian Hulley** · 10-01-2004, 04:29 AM

It seems fashionable to have a go at 'major' dealers,which in my opinion is why the 'leading' West coast dealer(s) don't have an on-line store. I owe no allegence to any dealer and will state here and now that if this tunic was on PvLs (excellent) site NO-ONE here would be doubting this tunic.

Personally I think the insignia is original,correctly applied and from what I see the wear is consistant,the insignia is 'sat' correctly 'in' the material rather than plonked on top.I know less about the tunic itself but think the item IS original and the fact that 1 or 51 mint,elite division tunics are for sale right now should have no effect what-so-ever on the judgement of this individual item.Each tunic should be judged on it's own merits,this one (coupled with Mr Winklers 100% lifetime guarantee) would make a fine addition to any W-SS collection.

Just my honest opinion,

Ian Hulley

**Panzer** · 10-01-2004, 06:30 AM

There is one thing I find bizarre always.....and that is this DEMAND for a lifetime guarantee...where the hell did that come from? Where on earth and buying what can you get a lifetime guarantee? you cannot get it on a car....a fridge.....antiques.......jewelry.......a pacemaker.......your wife....why militaria?

Wade K.

**Ian Hulley** · 10-01-2004, 07:20 AM

Hi Wade,I look on it as a sign of the dealers belief in his own item. Lifetime guarantee on a wife...now there's an interesting concept.

What's your knowledgable impression of this tunic ?

Cheers,Ian.

**Fritz** · 10-01-2004, 01:48 PM

Hey Ian.
what about asking John D. about that

. This is a SS tunic in a damn good shape....can't be real

Wade,
I agree with Ian. Most people feel more secure with that. But of course you need to put the guarantee to the test. Everyone can promisse everything to you even eternal love

.

Cheers

Fritz

**nutmeg** · 10-01-2004, 03:45 PM

Lifetime Guarentee

Does that end when the collector or the dealer dies first ?

**EKman** · 10-01-2004, 04:01 PM

At least it wasn't found in a barn

**Panzer** · 10-02-2004, 02:53 AM

Hello Ian and all!

the tunic certainly looks like a nice example to me....judging by the pictures (nothing like actually handling the item naturally) The insignia is in keeping with the tunic, very nice BeVo tabs, and i must say the straps with the embroidered LAH cypher are very, very nice. That is how an LLAH cypher should look. The depot marking of this tunic ( a wehrmacht pattern manufactured item) in 1942 and being 5 button is just fine....and quite appropriate. There are M40 tunics in both 5 and 6 button fronts right up until production ceased in preferance for the M43 pattern. No problem there.

As for the lifetime guarantee it just strikes me as funny......because as I said there is literally no other area where one could expect this....none. But naturally no wife comes with a guarantee.......that was me being exceptionally flippant! (I hope my wife never spots that comment!...but being in a militaria site it is well hideden from her! hahahaha!)

Ok...must go now...my wife is calling!

Cheers, Wade K.

**InfanterieSammler** · 10-02-2004, 03:14 AM

Oh, Please...

I have question here, how many member's here have actually handled original monogramed LAH shoulder boards? Just a thought? John

P.S. As far as lifetime guarantee's, you can think of it this way. If you bought a car, let's call it a Ford, and you discovered after a year that the car wasn't Ford and was only a pieced together 'parts' car made in Mexico, do you think you would have a right to go back to the dealership?

**Fritz** · 10-02-2004, 03:54 AM

Hey John,

have you? Who told you that the ones you hold in your hands are original?

Have you gotten a pair directly from Mr. Himmler? Probably not.

You see in most cases you can only educate yourself by reading books, talking to other individuals and have a look at their things, visiting Museums, talking to vets and making mistakes sometimes. I think that this is 100% the way Wade does it. And guess you yourself do it quite similar.

As for the guarantee, well these are supposed to guarantee the authenticy. That means they don't cover bad workmanship or poor materials

. If you figure out that the item you bought isn't authentic you should be able to send it back and then of course receiving your money back. This is the idea of the lifetime guarantee I think. So the car story is quite funny but not a good comparison.

Not to start a big fight here again.

Cheers

Fritz

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