SS runic collar tab bullion runes opinions needed

[NickG]

Here's my salty Estonian Volunteer tab (with unterlagen) and stitching also going straight through the buckram. It was done!

[M Bando]

re: Estonian EM tab

Nick G-
Very interesting to see that tab-it occurs to me that this method of stitching might have been done for another reason than just speeding-up production. This process fully joined the front surface design of the tab to the buckram backing, in a manner that was inseperable, barring total destruction of the tab. With the earlier and more common method, the embroidered piece of wool was done separately, then cut and wrapped around the buckram base, and the two components could later be totally separated. This 'thru the buckram' method was probably both more efficient and produced a sturdier finished product. Perhaps if the TR had lasted longer, this method would've eventually replaced the earleir separate production method.

[Ian Hulley]

I've NEVER seen knots tied in the ends of an original bullion anything, no amount of excuses/speculation will convince me that that embroidery is real.

Ian

[PMan]

Knots

I've NEVER seen knots tied in the ends of an original bullion anything, no amount of excuses/speculation will convince me that that embroidery is real.

Ian

Strip off the buckrum of an original example and you will see those knots. Also look at the original example posted by Mr. Bando in this thread.

[John Pic]

I agree I see the knot at the bottom of that picture obviously it was done.....but who would strip the buckram off a good tab just to see that?

[PMan]

Buckrum

I agree I see the knot at the bottom of that picture obviously it was done.....but who would strip the buckram off a good tab just to see that?

I have a few nice original tabs with the buckrum missing or removed. At times the tabs were sewn on without buckrum to make them conform better, I assume? Also, aside from that, if there was no knot at the end of the bullion, the embroiderer would pull the bullion out. This is only commen sense IMO, sewing 101. Step one: Tie a knot at the end of the thread. Step two: thread the needle.............etc, etc. I don't mean to sound condescending here, but the embroidery method on these seems pretty obvious. No big secret German mystery technique. Maybe I'm missing something.

[John Pic]

No I agree it is one technique used, I have also seen the thread tucked under after a few strands went through but not on SS tabs which Ive never seen with the buckram removed until now.

[M Bando]

oops-see page 174 of Beaver Insignia book

As a result of this discussion, I perused the above-captioned book, page by page, and discovered in the chapter on tunic-removed insignia, that I DID display a photo of the reverse side of the runic tab, showing the stitching coming right thru the buckram backing. It was my hope that seeing a documented example like that, would add to the knowledge of collectors who had not seen this done before.
BTW, you can still buy the book via paypal, at this link:

http://www.101airborneww2.com/books.html

[M Bando]

Bill Shea & M. Bando at the recent SoS



Bill was the one who handed me the job of completing the SS Insignia book for the late Mike Beaver. I wish John PIC would get a copy of the book, I'd appreciate getting his opinion of it

[90th Light]

For what my posting in this matter might be worth,

here is my 101% original, straight from the hands of veteran who brought it back.

If you want the full story of how it was picked up just let me know. For now however, you can judge the item but I swear on the bible and my mothers grave that this was made before May 1945,

Chris

[90th Light]

Close up of the knots in the bullion. All period done,

Chris

[EiSVOGEL']

For me there a no doubts that this method of stitching through the buckram was done! The shown tabs are very nice examples good to see some more tabs used this style.
But back to the tab, opened the thread, what do you think about this one finally? especially the style of the runes (shape etc.) and the buckram backing? Like I mentioned before, the buckram reminds me on those you can usually see in NSKK tabs, so I would have some doubts this was done period..

[EiSVOGEL']

Anybody who wants to state his opinion on the first runic tab posted?
I still don't know if it is either an original or recently upgraded fake tab?
regards

[Dr. Strangelove]

buckram removal

I have a few nice original tabs with the buckrum missing or removed. At times the tabs were sewn on without buckrum to make them conform better, I assume?

Tabs sometimes had the buckrum removed to make them more comfortable on a field tunic.

[Felix]

Tabs sometimes had the buckrum removed to make them more comfortable on a field tunic.

That was my guess as well. There has been many examples posted in the past with embroidery made through the buckram, and sometimes also when buckram is missing.

What is important about the tab in question is the shape of the runes and the dimension/propoertion of the tab itself.