Need to discuss this so called "NS/SS" wood Estand item

[pinkepank]

Hi,

Just a thought from the artistic aspect of this "wedding candlestick"... please dont misunderstand me, I am in no way a Homophobe.... but as both parts to this entwined thing are the same.... it does kinda look like homo-erotic modern art.... is it maybe SA instead of SS?

best thing ive read today

Michael thank you for taking the time to write this thread hopefully just another nail in the coffin for this chump

[djpool]

While I don't collect SS I did find this thread as well as the one on wooden NS objects to be interesting.

I don't understand why the seller doesn't advertise these objects as what they are-modern day works or reproductions. There certainly is a market for items of this type. Even wooden Michel Wittman etc plates would make nice decorative pieces to display alongside original items.

The quality of his work is pretty good and his prices are certainly in line with many furniture etc. stores selling similar items. I have to believe that most folks that bought his items didn't buy the story in the first place.

Jim

[Robert Jones]

I am going to remove the sales thread as the claims of the sellers description are not proved.

Thank you Gary for taking appropriate action on this issue.

Thank you Michael for stepping up and instigating a much needed debate.

I feel more relaxed knowing that you guys are maintaining a vigilant watch.

[PHILBROWN]

[QUOTE=Gary Wood;

REMEMBER:

What you all need to do is PROVE 100% with facts;

Items are fake

They are not as described

Thank you[/QUOTE]

so please put things in black and white,from now on anyone selling on estand has to have proof of items from the period sold with facts 100%,,,,? or is this just thorsten?

[jabnus]

i would say yes? Proof of originality is always needed!

Isn't the idea of the e-stand to provide WAF members original items? And if an item is questionable it can be discussed on the forum by making a new topic about it. It has always worked like this and helped many collectors getting fine items.

Or would you like for example Kai Winkler to come here and advertise SS tuxedo brooches as real, on the original badges and awards table without any questions asked?

The thing with the many cultural items in the past on the e-stand was that they were purposely offered knowing very well that the description for them was not right, but still they could be offered as the seller found a gap in the knowledge of many unsuspecting collectors and knew they had not enough knowledge on these items and history to see past the lies. After a lot of trouble and a 200+ pages thread about cultural items it is now finally clear what happened and from now on cultural (questionable?) items can each alone be discussed for what they REALLY are. It is a delight to see the community has learned this and also to see this post by Gary Wood. Today truly is a good day on WAF!


best regards,
Gaston

[PHILBROWN]

i agree sir, however if so, this must apply also to advanced collectors and well known names too surely? wouldnt this create a band width problem for seb?

[Robert Jones]

i agree sir, however if so, this must apply also to advanced collectors and well known names too surely? wouldnt this create a band width problem for seb?

LOL... touché

[jabnus]

Bandwidth doesn't seem to be a problem on the new server anymore?

Seriously: if a well known name offers something that is not original you are free to make a topic about it in the appropriate section and discuss it? This has been the procedure since many years. If a well known name structuraly offers things that are not correct dito? Im not sure how this would cause any bandwidthproblems?

[Gary Wood]

so please put things in black and white,from now on anyone selling on estand has to have proof of items from the period sold with facts 100%,,,,? or is this just thorsten?

Phil,
I have replied to your pm the jist below,


Regarding so called cultural items that can have been produce at anytime from the turn of the century to modern day then these need to be "proved they are period items and fit within the time period of the NS state if they are advertised as such on the e-stand", some are easy to tell as they are embellished with symbols of the period others are not, its the latter that need to Be proved period as you can still buy many traditional items in germany for example the tapestry that were listed,some until fairly recently were still in production.

I have a candle stick given to me by an ss vet who bought it pre war, just because he owned it and bought it does not make it a SS or a NS candle stick. So if the items are listed for sale on the estand as NS/SS then there needs to Be proof that they are .

Sorry if there are typos above as I have done this on my phone

[Thorsten B.]

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=655789

This item for sale in the Miscellaneous Third Reich Thread needs to be discussed:
The Problem I am discussing is specifically with the MISLEADING description provided by the seller .
The description given for this so-called “NS/SS” candle- holder is not true and misleading .
The SS book and page cited to vaguely prove this item is in any way associated with the SS book’s content (description of SS ceremonies) is not correct.
On page #36 in the The 1st edition of “Die Feier” there is no mention made of ANY Ingrune candle holder.
I have this book and the 2nd edition. As such I can simply turn to the page cited to check for correctness.
Instead there is a description of a Life rune and a Ing rune to be decorating “The main wall of the ceremonial space along with greenery and flowers”
The only candle- holders described (on P#36) for weddings as well as the only candle-holders prescribed for weddings on this page are Julleuchters!
As an aside the Ingrune symbol mentioned on page #36 is specifically described as being standing (vertical) as opposed to lying sideways(horizontal) as the item for sale is…if it can even really be described as an Ingrune-which is also debatable (although here it gets subjective-being in the eye of the beholder’s wishful thinking).

As most will not have this edition , I am posting mine to felicitate immediate proof of my claims.

Below is the Exact Description as posted in the MISCELLANEOUS THIRD REICH ITEMS E-Stand

“Dear cultural collectors,

Here I offer an outstanding period wedding candleholder out of my collection for sale.
The piece itself represents - masterly carved - the Ingrune, due to the SS-booklet "Die Feier" (First issue, page 36; published via the SS-Hauptamt by RF-SS Heinrich Himmler) one of the three officially specified germanic runes representing the wedding ceremony and the tightness of love between the couple, between man and woman.

The octagonal shape of it´s ends reminds strongly of the SS Allach logo and is - among other elements - typical for period composition.

The piece itself is in great original and completely untouched condition - the wood bears a lovely patina which adds to the character and beautiness of this delightful cultural item.

Length is 28,5 cm - height is 14 cm.

Price including trackable DHL shipping is 155 Euros.

Payment via Paypal or IBAN bank transfer. “

Mr. Fay,

What EXACTLY do you think is misleading in my cited description?

Since you have the book at hand:

Would You mind translating the text on page 36 within the SS-booklet "Die Feier" for us here into english language?

Just to find out and make sure that you really understood what the content and meaning of the text is all about!

Would You mind doing that for all to see?

Thank You in advance for your clearifying answer regarding this delicate matter.

[Robert Jones]

I believe I just heard a pin drop!

[Robert Jones]

Just for the record here Thorsten.

Although I might well regard the candlestick holder in question as somewhat twisted, I do not consider it to be homo-erotic in nature.

[Robert Jones]

Then again, once those darned candles have been inserted into the apparatuses orifices I suppose the the whole contraption could well be perceived by some as a quasi phallic conundrum of sorts.

Depending entirely upon one’s mindset that is.

[Ian Hulley]

[Thälmannpionier]

As a side note...for everyone who has interest in this area of collecting...and cannot afford the above mentioned book "die Feier" ( also not often available)
I can recommend the following period book (easy to find and cheap as well)

"Jugend im Jahresring"
Ein Brauchtumsweiser für die deutsche Jugend
Its a thick book about all the german and germanic, folkish practices and decorations during the Year..jultime,easter,mayday,birth,wedding and death..also a well explanation
of all runes and their uses during different ceremonies..also of note and interesting facts are the different traditions and folkways within the different german regions..
Im pretty sure the content and practices are pretty much the same
Like in the ss Book "Die Feier..."


http://www.amazon.de/gp/aw/d/B003ZIZ...dir_mdp_mobile


Sorry to interrupt this dicussion but i didnt want to start a new
Thread about it and since the cultural thread is dead..i thought it fits slightly in here..thanks