SS overall/Kombi camo pattern requested for identification

[fenriswolf]

FeWo, can you post close-ups of the button holes from the front closure and the pockets? Also the stitching used to construct the piece and do you notice any previous stitch lines anywhere on the piece?

I will do so tomorrow, concerning the pics (battery of camera is down).

To answer your question about the stitching: no previous stitch lines are visible on the entire uniform. The sewing thread is a Z-twist three-fold cotton thread, brown on fall side - grey on spring side. Approximatively thickness 70 - rather thick and therefore correct for the use on heavy duty apparel. I did some tests on spare meterial edging from the seams. Burning test is positive: cotton! Blue light test is positive as well: no optical enhencers used. Therefore: sewing thread is period and original.

Cheers,
FeWo

[fenriswolf]

F, Do you believe this piece to be pre 45?
__________________________________
Cheers Steve

Hi Steve,

to answer your question: I really don´t know!
That´s the reason why I am investigating here.

This Kombi raised from private hand a couple of weeks ago, here in Baden-Württemberg. The former owner was (according to info´s I received) a Wehrmacht member in half-track units. He died 1991 and his daughter kept the Kombi, along with some other relics, in a drawer for years.
It was a surprise find. During a discussion with the lady, she mentioned a "Tarnuniform" of her father she was using as a "Fasnacht"-Gimmick in the younger years. I was kidding: "you certainly not own a SS-Uniform" and she said "I gonna show it to you". Minutes later I hat to sit down and breathe deeply, when I saw a mint Waffen-SS Kombi in an unknown epic Tarnmuster and construction pattern.

Main differences between my example and the usually known Panzerkombi are:

-the buttons: mine are brown bakelite, narrow size/usually grey glass, wider size.
-the waist: mine with belt attached in the back and loose from side seams to the front/usually no belt on the Panzerkombi.
-side pockets: no flaps on mine
-placket: mine runs straight to the crotch and is less extended to the right.

According to replies, the camo cloth is original pre 45 SS-oak leave B camo.
Now we have to find out about the pattern of the garment: is it an improved version of the M43 coverall, a tailor-made private version, an afterwar worker suit made from spare fabric???

I spent already many days draging books, sites and pichosts such as Bundesarchiv in search of pics of a similar kombi with attached waistbelt: result - 1 small pic of a Peiper SPW crew member in Italy ca. 1943- not more.

Therefore: any help is highly appreciated!

Kind regards,
FeWo

[NickG]

Looks impressive! No doubt custom made from a bolt of material. Easier to obtain war time
than post war!

[kammo man]

Cool looking custom coveralls , looks a lot better sewing job than the Italian helmet covers, so it could be wartime made.
Please post some detail pictures

[David T]

FeWo, based on your info I think you have picked up an original pre-45 custom-tailored coverall made in Italy. Those brown bakelite buttons may be tha same type found on Italian items( shelterhalves). There have been some great books published in recent years on Heer and SS units in Italy and alot of photos custom camo items. Heer units often wore SS camo and vice versa. Nice find. You should inquire about the original owners unit if possible if you havent already).

[NickG]

FeWo, based on your info I think you have picked up an original pre-45 custom-tailored coverall made in Italy. Those brown bakelite buttons may be tha same type found on Italian items( shelterhalves). There have been some great books published in recent years on Heer and SS units in Italy and alot of photos custom camo items. Heer units often wore SS camo and vice versa. Nice find. You should inquire about the original owners unit if possible if you havent already).

Good observation! Yes indeed deep dish brown bakelite buttons obtained from an Italian poncho (zeltbahn).
Of course post September 1943 all war material from the Italian army was shipped to Germany, so not necessarily tailored in Italy,
but on the other hand that theatre did use a lot of camo!

[Fred Fokkelman]

I have a custome made uniform made of Italian camo material with the same buttons. Indeed these are the types used on Italian ponchos.

Interesting topic.... If this is the real thing it's the holly grail. At least for me.

[Ian Hulley]

Interesting also of course because between July/August and October '43 the Leibstandarte's Tiger company was stationed in Italy while forming into the s.SS Panzer Abt 101.

Ian

[Fritz]

IMO either a field-made - or a postwar made item for civil use. Certainly not a fake.

These brown buttons were also used for german splinter pattern Zeltbahnen.

The facts are:

- All materials used to make this Kombi were readily available immediately after the war.

- All materials used to make this Kombi were readily available during the war.

- The item was not made from Zeltbahnen.

Such bales of camo fabric were issued to field units, so they could certainly come up with something like that.


In the end, without rock-solid proof, it will be impossible to identify it as either wartime or postwar.

I tend more towards it being a postwar made item, but that is merely a guess based on some features the item shows (or doesn't show).

Cheers

[M44/45collector]

Very interesting item, thank you for showing.

[fenriswolf]

FeWo, can you post close-ups of the button holes from the front closure and the pockets? Also the stitching used to construct the piece and do you notice any previous stitch lines anywhere on the piece?

Hello David and forum community: please find here attached much more details of the Kombi.

http://postimage.org/image/za24ltid9/
http://postimage.org/image/m76i2js59/
http://postimage.org/image/4xq13y2bh/
http://postimage.org/image/v7fp0hdml/
http://postimage.org/image/8wru0igcd/
http://postimage.org/image/77iqsg0n1/
http://postimage.org/image/5gzpqyj3x/
http://postimage.org/image/za6pzk7r1/

Cheers,
FeWo

[fenriswolf]

Finally, the picture and some very few datas I found about the former owner of this Panzerkombi. Have also a look to the pic of a Peiper SPW crew man with something looking like a Panzerkombi with attached waistbelt.

http://postimage.org/image/pxfbmxirh/
http://postimage.org/image/98dvr0m65/

Cheers,
FeWo

[NickG]

Interesting topic.... If this is the real thing it's the holly grail. At least for me.

I like the details a lot! Yes the holy grail (SS Schweres Panzer)
Here some dot panzerkombis...(same cut)

[fenriswolf]

SS Overall

Hi Nick,
many thanks for this fantastic pic!
But the guys would certainly not wear a leather belt with a Koppelschloß over an existing belt, attached to the Kombi. Of course, it is possible - but is it comfortable, practical? The surcharge is not acceptable imo.

I use to wear accessories on my trouser belt and I shouted 100 times when the knife, tool or lampholster hang on an proeminent point, hindering my passing through. A Leather belt on an Panzerkombi is quite the same. Now, imagine a loaded P38 or P08 holster, slipped on your Koppelriemen, and try to jump quickly in the narrow turret opening of your Panzer...or try a slip out.

You would say in german: Verdammte Scheiße, was klemmt da?

So many statements of Panzer crew members related they where merely unarmed when they were in or out of their tanks (so far holsters and handguns are concerned). Even the Koppel is hindering when you want to enter or leave the tank through forseen openings.

Cheers,
FeWo

[Fritz]

Here some dot panzerkombis...(same cut)

This is not dot but plane tree. The cut of the one this thread is about, compared to an original factory made piece, is quite different, let alone the details an issue piece has.




Looking at the added pictures I tend even more towards it being a post 45 manufactured item. Either way it makes a nice display.

Cheers