Helmet covers ..........good and bad

[pete]

.

We might as well just shut down this forum right now. I can listen to animal farm on youtube any time I want without watching the way this is unfolding. If you have an issue with someone, especially about money do it in private, why is barrack room antics required here? Shameful the lot of you and the amount of grand standing going on like this. So the next time ANYBODY on here has an issue with another this is what we have to look forward to? Honestly....a fight against intolerance was what WW2 was all about and that's what we are seeing here, sadly. This forum also bears the name of a respected man, but how much respect is being shown here to other forum members no matter what knots you got in your faces twisted into? There's ways of being a lot better whatever your gripe then this and still being respectful.

Regards,

Pete

[Thorsten B.]

I cannot remember that you ever posted within this forum and all of a sudden you do - interesting!

I cannot even see who your friends are...

[ferdinandmax]

We might as well just shut down this forum right now. I can listen to animal farm on youtube any time I want without watching the way this is unfolding. If you have an issue with someone, especially about money do it in private, why is barrack room antics required here? Shameful the lot of you and the amount of grand standing going on like this. So the next time ANYBODY on here has an issue with another this is what we have to look forward to? Honestly....a fight against intolerance was what WW2 was all about and that's what we are seeing here, sadly. This forum also bears the name of a respected man, but how much respect is being shown here to other forum members no matter what knots you got in your faces twisted into? There's ways of being a lot better whatever your gripe then this and still being respectful.

Regards,

Pete

think you have to make a distinction between honest people and no, the forums are also for this reason, it is in the interest of all collectors regards sergio

[ferdinandmax]

Yes, you wanted it after handexamination more of ten years ago',
After ten years you sayd me it isnt a good helmet, so I offered you to give the contact where I bought the helmet for you. I dont ask to get back an helmet after ten years, if you want do that I will give you the contact, without problem. I already told you this in person if you remeber. I'm in the opinion that one collectore should know what he buy, or ask for advice before bring the stuffs. personally at the time, before the Books of Kelly Hicks where published didnt klnow very well the matter, but you with 60 years of collecting sure knowed better of me what you wanted.
Lorenz
QUOTE=ferdinandmax;5502133]http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=622450 here is a helmet that gave me Lorenz

[/QUOTE]

yes it's been ten years, but you knew long before you gave me a helmet false, even you've recently Given to a friend of mine in SS false and not only That, I had faith in you, you're a policeman, a man of the law how could I think That the helmet was fake?
   but Also the seller must know what sells, do not make excuses, then you do not have to Consider yourself a collector, you will not know the originality of the material you sell it? sorry for my english this is the last post in this thread

[A c h t u n g !]

First he ruined other member's helmet covers and gave no explanations why they are fake, ..but it is nothing in comparison to what he is doing now : trying to ruin a good member's reputation by PUBLICLY accusing him in criminal faking activity. After all Lorenzo is a cop/police officer.

I wonder how come such denigrations and serious accusations without any evidence against a fellow forum member became allowed here?

I know for a fact that had these accusations been said against any mod, it would have been his last post on the WAF.

Person's reputation is not a helmet cover. You have proove it or apologize if you really have balls.

[A c h t u n g !]

yes it's been ten years, but you knew long before you gave me a helmet false, even you've recently Given to a friend of mine in SS false and not only That, I had faith in you, you're a policeman, a man of the law how could I think That the helmet was fake?
   but Also the seller must know what sells, do not make excuses, then you do not have to Consider yourself a collector, you will not know the originality of the material you sell it? sorry for my english this is the last post in this thread

We all make mistakes simply because we cannot know everything. Lorenzo is no different. It took you 10 years to figure out the helmet is fake.. He was not the best decal expert either and surely had much lesser time than you to play with this helmet. Sometimes collectors sell fakes in good faith that they are indeed original. I myself once noticed that a metal eagle on Lorenzo's SS visor is fake and when I told him about it he became very upset too because he has got it from his close friend too and always believed it was original.

[Lorenz]

I'm sorry for the helmet Sergio, but when I bought it for you 12 years ago I was confident it was good. Unfortunately I discovered after years, after Kelly Hick published his book with the description of the difference between factprys and decal
That I aslo discovered my collection of helmets was fake, I sold the enrire lot like copy, after I discovered one was good. When I bought and sold and you got it both was thinking that was original, we both made a mistake. How I told in person if you want I can give you the contact to the collector sold me the helmet, I cant ask to bring back it after years I'm sorry. I think is better you buy things you know or ask for advices on forum.
Lorenz





yes it's been ten years, but you knew long before you gave me a helmet false, even you've recently Given to a friend of mine in SS false and not only That, I had faith in you, you're a policeman, a man of the law how could I think That the helmet was fake?
   but Also the seller must know what sells, do not make excuses, then you do not have to Consider yourself a collector, you will not know the originality of the material you sell it? sorry for my english this is the last post in this thread[/QUOTE]

[judas]

i'm sorry for the helmet sergio, but when i bought it for you 12 years ago i was confident it was good. Unfortunately i discovered after years, after kelly hick published his book with the description of the difference between factprys and decal
that i aslo discovered my collection of helmets was fake, i sold the enrire lot like copy, after i discovered one was good. When i bought and sold and you got it both was thinking that was original, we both made a mistake. How i told in person if you want i can give you the contact to the collector sold me the helmet, i cant ask to bring back it after years i'm sorry. I think is better you buy things you know or ask for advices on forum.
Lorenz


so you brought it after he asked you if you had a helmet for sale right ? And i take it you made some profit ? You are the one who sold it you are the one who should refund .




Yes it's been ten years, but you knew long before you gave me a helmet false, even you've recently given to a friend of mine in ss false and not only that, i had faith in you, you're a policeman, a man of the law how could i think that the helmet was fake?
   But also the seller must know what sells, do not make excuses, then you do not have to consider yourself a collector, you will not know the originality of the material you sell it? Sorry for my english this is the last post in this thread

[/quote]

[Daniel.S]

Its kinda funny...

When collectors are talking about naming and possibly finding someone that fakes/makes top dollar SS items then its "close the forum" "I quit" "shut down the thread"

But when a dealer restores a eagle and forget to mention it then hell brakes loose with 50 pages.

[Ian Hulley]

when a dealer restores a eagle and forget to mention it then hell brakes loose with 50 pages.

You're right, they should be tarred and feathered and have 'Faker' tattooed across their forehead. Interesting to see them all lined up at the Max or SOS then wouldn't it.

[RobertE]

The fact Lorezo unwittingly sold a helmet over a decade ago that turned out to be a replica has no bearing on the helmet covers.

Anyone who has bought or traded militaria for decades has let go of replicas that he believed to be real - be honest. Similiarly, he has probably let real pieces go only to discover they were real: I know I have.

I think that with all the bold talk about exposing the faker, I find it interesting it took this many pages to accuse Lorenzo in a round about manner of being the bad guy. This assumes:

- the covers that have been shown of "Italian origin" are bad in the first place. Nothing has been proven.

- Lorenzo had anything to do with their fabrication, or wittingly marketed them.

This is a witch hunt of the worst sort. This thread is damaging the reputation of a fellow collector, forcing him to defend against vague crimes based on the accusations of a posse of collectors that claim to know something. No evidence, just burn him at the stake.

This thread should not just be shut down, it should be deleted.

regards, Robert

[kammo man]

Thus protecting the fake helmet covers, which there are more than 20.

A figure not just dreamed up ..........

but through seeing many different examples over a space of 10 plus years .

[RobertE]

Owen, I know you are knowlegeable about helmet covers - you were the first to help me with mine and I appreciate it.

But these helmet covers - I guess all 20 of them - are not being discussed.

There is not concensus they are fake, and you and others refuse to disclose why they are fake. I understand your reasons for this position, but you are asking collectors to basically toss what could be a 10K cover into the trash, based on no evidence.

Eliminating this thread does not deny any meaningful information to any collector that allows him to identify fake covers, because very little detail is contained in this thread.

If this thread is supposed to be an informed warning, then it could just have this one paragraph:

"Don't buy the SS covers that came from Lorenzo. They are replicas from Italy that he makes or peddles. I can't tell you why, because it would tip off the fakers. Just take my word for it."

regards, Robert

[Fritz]

There is not concensus they are fake, and you and others refuse to disclose why they are fake. I understand your reasons for this position, but you are asking collectors to basically toss what could be a 10K cover into the trash, based on no evidence.

I am not really sure this is the case. If you are familiar with authentic ss camouflage the fake double needle stitching is a clear proof that the ones we have discussed here recently are fake.

Anyone who denies that can't either see that, don't want to see it or has another agenda.

Now one could argue that it may be an "unheard of variant". But, as far as I am concerned, that would require a little bit too much tolerance. And in the end everything could be excused if you approach severe abnormalities with that mindset.

There are a number of other issues with these and other covers. It is not that those who don't like these items are making it all up in order to look important.

Cheers

[Asper]

This thread has stalled, but something can be taken away from it.

Let's be clear here, these so called "Italian Covers" have been discussed across several threads and forums with useful techical info for those willing to read it. So statements that no details or facts have been presented are false. These go beyond Owen's observations, other input against these covers has been put forward by others that is objective and should raise red flags with readers even if you don't regard this a familiar field.

Regarding SS helmet covers, very few folks collect and are knowledgeable with these for obvious reasons - so to assume anyone's comments in the threads weigh the same would be naive. Once you strip out all posts that are not technically relevant to the cover assessments or are mere opinions without facts to back them up, you are left with a larger number of facts against these being originals than those supporting them.

On the topic of who made these, we still need to have all original owners step up to the plate and link them to the same individual. That goes beyond one person speaking on behalf of others. The lack of participation in this regards hints at two possible things: Lack of balls or lack of factual links to any particular individual.

I suggest in the meantime the covers stand on their own, and those supporting the originality then counter the negative points raised about the covers.

Asper