WSS Insignia on soldiers KIA, Nuremburg 1945

[HouweTrouwe]

Fritz you are right, I was not lucky enough to see these scenarios on youtube or the tv. Wish that is where I saw it. Jacques

Jacques, I can tell you that you can get shot (most of the time with a handheld weapon) without bleeding out of the wound or see a clear entrance wound. Bullet wounds are far less from interesting then you see them on TV. Bullet wounds can be very small and sometimes even be missed. Nor would there be any blood "spraying" visible if they were shot in the thoracal or abdominal area as the (thick) clothes catches up any blood as there is no naked contact with the outside. As said they aren't as spectacular as on TV or Film. I'm not including high caliber weapons or shotguns thought.

[HouweTrouwe]

That is true, however, from what little can be seen here, I would presume the bodies were lying there for no longer than 6-12 hours. Likely, IMHO, less than 6 hours.

But even if it was just one minute between the shooting and the picture of course the photographer could have been around the corner knowing nothing of what was going on.

Cheers

Time based upon? I can't see anything from here. Thought IMO I can't see any clear rigor mortis but as said I can't say anything from here from a black and white photograph. Based upon my experience and from what I can see from what is clear to be seen on the bodies I'd say just happened or max. a couple of hours.

[HouweTrouwe]

It looks like the man on the extreme right had a walking crutch under his arm.

Also, you cannot see any blood or bullet wounds on the men. Have they been positioned to make it a less graphic photo for the 'moms back home'?

Finally a good observation. There is indeed at least one wooden walking crutch visible under his arm.. Which IMO clears out any combat situation as there also aren't any weapons to be seen.

[chrischa]

It also appears the man in the centre has one bandaged bare foot. (Not wrapped as in cold weather).

[Fritz]

Time based upon?

Total lack of cadaveric ecchymoses in the visible areas.

Hence I think it was less than 6-12 hours between the execution and the picture. Likely less than 6 hours.

[HouweTrouwe]

Total lack of cadaveric ecchymoses in the visible areas.

Hence I think it was less than 6-12 hours between the execution and the picture. Likely less than 6 hours.

I agree due lack of (visible) ecchymosis but we are looking at a B&W photograph which already make a correct timeframe quite difficult and we only have visibility on some of the faces, hands and feet. Thought as said before I agree with a couple of hours (less then 5-6h).

[Fritz]

Nor would there be any blood "spraying" visible if they were shot in the thoracal or abdominal area as the (thick) clothes catches up any blood as there is no naked contact with the outside.

A slight "spray" of blood as well as other liquids and matter will always exit as long as the projectile exits.

But of course, as far as regular filfle rounds fired at a torso are concerned, that won't usually cause huge blood splatter all over a wall. It leaves however a trace that can be analysed by qualified police forces if desired.

In war, where killing is widely legal and desired, of course such traces etc. have no relevance. Where there is no prosecutor there won't be a judge as a german saying goes.

Cheers

[Fritz]

I agree due lack of (visible) ecchymosis but we are looking at a B&W photograph which already make a correct timeframe quite difficult and we only have visibility on some of the faces, hands and feet. Thought as said before I agree with a couple of hours (less then 5-6h).

That is true, however, that phenomenon, with white people, is usually quite contrasty and should be well visible. This leads me to conclude that the picture was taken before said natural changes to the bodies occurred.

The bare feet are a good indicator, especially in the position they are in. I can see no trace though.

Cheers

[HouweTrouwe]

A slight "spray" of blood as well as other liquids and matter will always exit as long as the projectile exits.

But of course, as far as regular filfle rounds fired at a torso are concerned, that won't usually cause huge blood splatter all over a wall. It leaves however a trace that can be analysed by qualified police forces if desired.

In war, where killing is widely legal and desired, of course such traces etc. have no relevance. Where there is no prosecutor there won't be a judge as a german saying goes.

Cheers

You are correct, I replied on the fact he defined there are no blood spatters on the wall to be seen (from a photograph from this distance), I don't think he ment the slight loss of liquid spatters that follows the projectile but a mess of blood vs the wall.

[HouweTrouwe]

That is true, however, that phenomenon, with white people, is usually quite contrasty and should be well visible. This leads me to conclude that the picture was taken before said natural changes to the bodies occurred.

The bare feet are a good indicator, especially in the position they are in. I can see no trace though.

Cheers

I've taken more look into the photograph, see attachment. 1.) flaccid of lower jaw ? , 2.) recognizing the correct colors is difficult but the skin seems still darker then the bright wall and inside (cement ?) purpling of the skin? Looking to his chin ..

<a href="http://www.ipernity.com/doc/198517/12695653"><img title="WSS KIA 1b" alt="WSS KIA 1b" src="http://u1.ipernity.com/22/56/53/12695653.626f2c2e.1024.jpg" height="609" width="1024" /></a>

[Fritz]

purpling of the skin? Looking to his chin ..

Hard to tell, it may well just be the beard.


The black wrapper man seems to have been bleeding from his nose slightly. If that is indeed blood then it seems to have been running down when he was in the position he is in (or anyhow a similar postion).

[HouweTrouwe]

Hard to tell, it may well just be the beard.


The black wrapper man seems to have been bleeding from his nose slightly. If that is indeed blood then it seems to have been running down when he was in the position he is in (or anyhow a similar postion).

Cranial trauma possible? He is the only one wearing a cap (...could be put on?)?

[90th Light]

There is a well researched article in the English magazine "After the battle" about one of these incidents. I am adding some of the photos here, for academic purpose to show you the quality of the article and recommend it to all reading this.

These photos were published in After the Battle, number 27, "The Webling Incident", London 1980, pages 30 to 33.

I recommend that everybody should have a full set of these magazines in their reference libary. They are the best that there is,

Chris

[90th Light]

2/ These photos were published in After the Battle, number 27, "The Webling Incident", London 1980, pages 30 to 33,

Chris

[90th Light]

3/ These photos were published in After the Battle, number 27, "The Webling Incident", London 1980, pages 30 to 33.

Chris