General Seyffard and de Ruyter cuff titles

[NickG]

No visible Dutch insignia shown here among German Cadre members of NEDERLAND (at Narwa Front Spring 1944),
Not surprising as they are all German Nationals...so no shields, but you would expect at least cuff titles...(hard to tell...)

[NickG]

Maybe here? De Ruyter (De Ruiter) Regiment titles perhaps? Again no Dutch shields...So Volks-Deutscher no doubt!

[bkossen]

Hi Nick,

Maybe not exactly what you are looking for, but at least there is photographic evidence that some vets transfered to the Brigade kept their Leg. Nederland / Niederlande cufftitles and arm shields. This particular photo of a dutch Rottenführer of SS-Art. Rgt. 54 was taken in May 1944 at Narwa (PK Eisner).

(Photo from NARA - a big thanks to Marc for scanning these negatives )

Regards,
Bert

[ben haynes]

thanks for everone's help so far the pictures are great are there any good books about the dutch waffen ss?? would love to see more pictures of the nederland brigade/ division. kind regards Ben

[JWL]

Altough not Ärmelbnad related, this might be of interest. Here we have Stubaf. Massell, DKiG winner and commander of the Seyffardt Regiment, during an EK2 award-ceremony. He was KIA in early 1945.

[Jeroen wo2]

thanks for everone's help so far the pictures are great are there any good books about the dutch waffen ss?? would love to see more pictures of the nederland brigade/ division. kind regards Ben

These books are expensive but are good with information and photos of the Dutch Waffen-SS.
They are in Dutch so that's is a little bit a problem for an englishman I think.

http://verzamelen.marktplaats.nl/mil...t-4-dl-ss.html

[bkossen]

Some more for Ben.

Stills from footage taken early 1943. Not 4. SS Brigade "Nederland" therefore but still Legion Niederlande.



These Dutch SS soldiers nicknamed their bunker "Villa Slijkkoek" (literally translated: Villa dirt corner). Note the MP40 hanging from the roof.



A dutch Unterscharführer is inspecting maintenance on a MG34. He is still wearing the Nederland cuff title and arm shield but the Wolfhook on the collar seem to have dissapeared by now. Not vissible in these stills, but all men shown in this footage seem to be wearing SS runes.

By the time the Legion was transfered into a Brigade and went back to the Eastern Front in December 1943, all national symbols seem to have dissapeared - the odd exception there. The wolfhook symbol was forbidden. Lets not forget that dutchmen only made up about 40% of the strength of the Brigade and that percentage dropped even further during the later stages of the war.

Though the Waffen-SS tended to use grotesque names for their units, the 4. SS-Freiw.Pz.Gren. Brigade "Nederland" could hardly be called a brigade (let alone division)...could hardly be called armoured...and certainly could not be called a dutch unit.

Regards,
Bert

[NickG]

Here a Dutchman who joined the Leg.Niederlande, later rebuilt as "Brigade Nederland". (KIA Narva Front March 1944).
Uniform lacking any national insignia, no cufftitle, no shield... seems to be the norm with Brig.Nederland members...
His best dress uniform from his Legion days with insignia removed after it got dissolved? Too bad the tab is not visible!

[NickG]

Not De Ruiter or Seyffhart east front related but still a neat picture of Red Devils captured by Waffen SS in Arnhem.
Of interest is the Dutchman with an embroidered cuff title that reads
either "Nederland" or "Niederlande".

Several theories (since this image is from September 1944)
(1) he is a member of "Landstorm Nederland" with an unofficial cuff title
(that reads "Nederland" or "Niederlande")

(2) he is a "Nederland" Division soldier who happened to be on leave in Holland and got drafted into this unit or kampfgruppe.
(if the title reads "Nederland")

(3) he is a "Leg.Niederlande" veteran who got transfered into "Landstorm Nederland" and modified his Legion cuff title, removing the "Leg" part.
(if the title reads "Nederland" or "Niederlande" as both descriptions were used)

[bkossen]

Yes, an intriguing photo indeed. There is a book written about the experiences of a dutch Waffen-SS volunteer during the Arnheim battle. He was trained in Graz and destined to go to the Nederland Brigade, but somehow ended up in Kraft's Ersatz-und-Ausbildungs Battalion and later fought with one of the Hohenstauffen Kampfgruppen. From the book we know he wore the Nederland / Niederlande cufftitle (his platoon leader advised him to get rid of it after a couple of days, as both the local population and the airborne troops would see him as a traitor). I always wondered if the man in question is depicted here.

Does anybody know if this particular photo was published in Signal?

Regards,
Bert

[Zauberflöte]

Yes, an intriguing photo indeed. There is a book written about the experiences of a dutch Waffen-SS volunteer during the Arnheim battle. .... I always wondered if the man in question is depicted here.

....

Regards,
Bert

And what an excellent and intriquing book it is!
Due to his youth he very well could be the same character...

[NickG]

Yes, an intriguing photo indeed. There is a book written about the experiences of a dutch Waffen-SS volunteer during the Arnheim battle. He was trained in Graz and destined to go to the Nederland Brigade, but somehow ended up in Kraft's Ersatz-und-Ausbildungs Battalion and later fought with one of the Hohenstauffen Kampfgruppen. From the book we know he wore the Nederland / Niederlande cufftitle (his platoon leader advised him to get rid of it after a couple of days, as both the local population and the airborne troops would see him as a traitor). I always wondered if the man in question is depicted here.

Does anybody know if this particular photo was published in Signal?

Regards,
Bert

Very interesting Bert!
Sorry could not get it any crisper than this... Definately "Nederland" or "Niederlande" (not Nordland)

[Sagittario]

Very interesting Bert!
Sorry could not get it any crisper than this... Definately "Nederland" or "Niederlande" (not Nordland)

Interesting photo, I have an original worn ct with "Niederlande" on it and is easy to see that the "Frw. Legion" part of text was removed.

Thanks for posting.

Max

[Winkelman]

Surprised that noone commented yet on the GOTHIC ( ?! ) CT , pictured in this excellent thread by Rove .. >> http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=561928&page=3
.

[NickG]

Simply fantastic. Thanks for your contribution pointing this out Winkelman and Rove for finding it !
WAF and its members ROCK!