Distinguishing SS M40 tunics from Heer ones

[kapitein]

M42: Ehhh sorry yep you are right Hilton I wasn't thinking dohh...
Does proove that WSS had their own standards in cut and design which lead to their M42 jacket so the M40 differences do make sence.

Would be great to see more pics of M40 in WSS cut with 2 fold liners and maybe manufacturing markings?

Anybody willing to post more?

Kapitein

[Madhessian]

Excellent Thread,

Thanks for sharing your theory,

Joe

[RobertE]

I think we have moved beyond theory, and have recognized a manufacturing rule for SS tunics.

s/f Robert

[NickG]

I think we have moved beyond theory, and have recognized a manufacturing rule for SS tunics.

s/f Robert

I was going to state the exact same thing!
and several dealers are already subscribing to this knowledge!

[Napalm]

I think we have moved beyond theory, and have recognized a manufacturing rule for SS tunics.

s/f Robert

A Bold statement and one that you will have to back-up in the future but until I see otherwise I'm going to take a complementary view on this situation...:-)

[Bob Hritz]

This is a very interesting thread and I have learned much from it.

My question is what about model 40 tunics with the three cut lining panel? Are they less important if always an SS tunic?

It was my understanding that the SS got many, if not most, of the M-40 tunics from the Heer supplies.

Thanks for the great information.

Bob Hritz

[Zauberflöte]

This is a very interesting thread and I have learned much from it.

My question is what about model 40 tunics with the three cut lining panel? Are they less important if always an SS tunic?

It was my understanding that the SS got many, if not most, of the M-40 tunics from the Heer supplies.

Thanks for the great information.

Bob Hritz

Bob, naturally a genuine and authentic worn SS M40 tunic in the three cut "Heer version" is -IMO- just as historically important and collectable as a two cut liner. But as I have stated before, it will become more difficult to claim that an alleged 'three cut' Heer tunic is indeed genuine SS. Since if this theory of a SS manufacturing rule proves indeed to be correct, then there are specific characteristics that apparently make it a SS produced tunic. In other words, there comes more to it then only to check whether it once had a breast eagle or not. Therefore I can imagine that in the long run the three cut liners will become less favorable over those with the two cut lining panel...

[Bob Hritz]

Thank you. I would love to know the specific differences between SS M-40 tunics and Heer M-40 tunics. I only have 2 of the M-40 cut tunics, both of the 3 angle liners. My model 36 has the 2 angle liner.

If there is a specific difference between Heer and SS 3 angle cut liner tunics, I would love to know those other differences. I would think that if the SS were using Heer tunics, they would be the same. I know on my two angle cut M-36 tunic, the collar is largerthan the Heer version.

Bob Hritz

[Lorenz]

Bob,
I have in collection this later m40 uniform, later manifactured IMO for the wool and the high rajon lining in an unusual light color, the uniform have the SS cut lining, the stamps of the size and an other stamp illegible under the armpit.
lorenz

Thank you. I would love to know the specific differences between SS M-40 tunics and Heer M-40 tunics. I only have 2 of the M-40 cut tunics, both of the 3 angle liners. My model 36 has the 2 angle liner.

If there is a specific difference between Heer and SS 3 angle cut liner tunics, I would love to know those other differences. I would think that if the SS were using Heer tunics, they would be the same. I know on my two angle cut M-36 tunic, the collar is larger yjsn the Heer version.

Bob Hritz

[Lorenz]

..

[RobertE]

Bob, good question. I would think that an army-type, three-angle liner that sports pre-1945 SS insignia would be identical to it's army counterpart.

If there were differences, then I imagine they would be one or more of the following noted differences between the SS two-angle and the army three-angle tunic types (condensed from ATF and thread text):

- SS collars are about 1/2" wider than Heer types
- the skirt (from the waist to the hem) is 1-2" shorter, and the size markings reflect this so it is not just a "style" modification
- the pockets aren't graded (same width on all sizes)
- the rear lining usually lacks darts, and belt hook holes are 1cm lower
- the inside liner is two-angle instead of three
- the first aid pocket button hole is horizontal on the Army types, but vertical on the SS varieties

In addition to the above M40 variances, the M41's had a rayon lining and the breast pockets are sewn through the liner.

But - I don't think we'll find these features on a 3-angle type. The army-types are probably made 100 percent like their army brethern, because they are probably army tunics badged as SS. From my perspective, they are no less historically significant if original, and there are many original examples in collections that should be considered just as important and valuable as the SS cut types.

These are not subtle differences - they are as easy to visually check as is a five button or two-hole characteristic. For the weakening voices protesting this group of observations and choosing to downplay it, there are concurrent threads waiting for just one example to be posted showing the SS-type tunic with army insignia.

regards, Robert

[Bob Hritz]

This is very important information from which I have learned a great deal. My thanks to all participants in providing this valuable information.

The purpose of the forums is clearly demonstrated by such scientific investigations.

Bob Hritz

[Zauberflöte]

Bob, good question.

...............

These are not subtle differences - they are as easy to visually check as is a five button or two-hole characteristic. For the weakening voices protesting this group of observations and choosing to downplay it, there are concurrent threads waiting for just one example to be posted showing the SS-type tunic with army insignia.

regards, Robert

This sums it all up Robert and IMO can be considered the closing of the discussion and to get this thread pinned . Of course it's always open for those "skeptics" with relevant arguments which we all would be more then happy to take notice of.

F.

[NickG]

For the weakening voices protesting this group of observations and choosing to downplay it, there are concurrent threads
waiting for just one example to be posted showing the SS-type tunic with army insignia.

STILL WAITING...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Zauberflöte]

The Ruptured Duck just listed another example that seems to subscribe to the theory: http://therupturedduck.com/WebPages/Uniforms/u064.htm