Hammerhead eagle??

[Hohenstaufen]

Type #1 Flat head (Hammerhead). Head and beak area are almost completely filled in.

[Hohenstaufen]

Type # 2 Flat head ( Hammerhead ). Head area has more space or gaps. Head is angled just slightly higher with beak pointing upwards.

[Hohenstaufen]

Type # 3 VT eagle ( not Hammerhead!). A lot of the exact characteristics as a Hammerhead, except the head is rounded.

[Hohenstaufen]

Type # 4 VT Eagle . This type is seldom seen.

[Hohenstaufen]

Here is a close up of the heads.

[Hohenstaufen]

Last we have two early tunic removed sleeve eagles.

[SJP]

IMO this is a very nice Hammerhead eagle but not an early VT example.
I have frequently seen this eagle (on period pictures) on M40 or M36 tunic but never on a M37 VT.
IMO this is an early war example.

Agree
___________________________________________

Excellent layout Grant
__________________________________________________ ________
Cheers Steve

[Richard P]

O.K.

I'm just asking...if both are considered hammerheads, why is there a $1,200.00 + price difference between the two?

I just recently got the two "hammerheads" (according to you guys) pictured sitting on the camo cloth for about $300.00 each from an advanced collector who ID'd them as early RZM style. I can't seem to find the other style for under $1,700.00.

So because one is an "earlier" hammerhead, they are worth so much more? I'm sincerely just trying to sort this out. Which is the VT style...#1 or #2?

Richard

[Greg Domian]

Richard,
You got me why there is a difference in price. I would take the one for 300.00 and run with it as a great deal. I think Grant is saying that there is no real distiction between a hammerhead, that they were both eary VT eagles and should be considered as such. I see no reason that there would be a price difference between either of them. I think some collectors want to break these minute differences into more variations of the same eagle creating more versions of which we can then try to collect. I personally think there are two styles of hammerhead eagles. The ones Grant shows as being two different hammerheads I think is just one style with slight differences in machine tension to casue a difference in how the head is filled/formed and the ealge I show below. There is a distinct difference in the inner wing and leg stiching on this eagle compared to the hammerheads Grant is showing. My appologies for posting this eagle without giving credit to whoever owns this photo as I do not have a reference to where I found it.

Greg

[Richard P]

Richard,
You got me why there is a difference in price. I would take the one for 300.00 and run with it as a great deal. I think Grant is saying that there is no real distiction between a hammerhead, that they were both eary VT eagles and should be considered as such. I see no reason that there would be a price difference between either of them. I think some collectors want to break these minute differences into more variations of the same eagle creating more versions of which we can then try to collect. I personally think there are two styles of hammerhead eagles. The ones Grant shows as being two different hammerheads I think is just one style with slight differences in machine tension to casue a difference in how the head is filled/formed and the ealge I show below. There is a distinct difference in the inner wing and leg stiching on this eagle compared to the hammerheads Grant is showing. My appologies for posting this eagle without giving credit to whoever owns this photo as I do not have a reference to where I found it.

Greg

Greg,

Thanks for responding and hopefully others will too. I had a habit of lumping the two types together, as it took me a while to finally tell them apart. A patient friend would always point out the differences for me.

That's fine with me if both types are SS-VT, maybe now the prices on the type #2 will drop and my search will be over.

Anyone have a type #2 they will trade for a type #1 plus cash???

Richard

[wisches]

great info on arm eagles!
thanks for pictures shown.......
can you guys shed light on eagle in thred started by davej ?
wisches

[jimt]

Richard,
You got me why there is a difference in price. I would take the one for 300.00 and run with it as a great deal. I think Grant is saying that there is no real distiction between a hammerhead, that they were both eary VT eagles and should be considered as such. I see no reason that there would be a price difference between either of them. I think some collectors want to break these minute differences into more variations of the same eagle creating more versions of which we can then try to collect. I personally think there are two styles of hammerhead eagles. The ones Grant shows as being two different hammerheads I think is just one style with slight differences in machine tension to casue a difference in how the head is filled/formed and the ealge I show below. There is a distinct difference in the inner wing and leg stiching on this eagle compared to the hammerheads Grant is showing. My appologies for posting this eagle without giving credit to whoever owns this photo as I do not have a reference to where I found it.

Greg

Greg,
this pattern is frequently found with early pattern "RZM " paper tags on the back ( in fact if you look closely you will see it on this example) I believe this pattern dates to 1938. notice the detail to the legs of the eagle which is quite different than grants posted examples which I think are later perhaps 1939 ? The 1936 pattern of this eagle had a cloth rzm tag and a lot less detail to it I will post a picture . These details that have been pointed out may just be different manufactures of these eagles and have nothing to do with time of manufacture, the paper/cloth rzm tags may help in some small way to give a time frame I suppose ?
jim toncar

[jimt]

VT eagle

in addition to the above info I must add that I have seen eagles with the leg detail (Grants posted examples ) with paper tags on the back . Here is the earliest pattern of this eagle I have encountered, It is not in my collection and hope it is all right to show it ?
jimtoncar

[jimt]

Vt eagle

Here is the pattern Grant shows with paper tag . I think this may be a slightly later patter ??
jimtoncar

[John Pic]

I agree with Jim the one with less detailed head and RZM tag with cloth backing that Kevin showed and later Grant is earlier than the one with the heavier head.....and somwhere in between or maybe simultaneously was the other one without the hammer head but with RZM tag and black cloth backing.

Although..it doesnt matter they are all earlier eagles and Felix's eagle is original , I think you find the VT hammerheads were used well into the early 40s based on the uniforms they are pictured on